Faramir and Eowyn meet prior to House of Healing?
#1
I suppose this could be both a movie and a book question, but do you suppose that Faramir and Eowyn could have met at some time before their initial meeting at the House of Healing?
I mean Eowyn was the niece of the King of Rohan, and Faramir the son of the steward, would Theoden and Denethor have much communication back and forth? They seem to kind of do their own thing to a degree, but could it be possible that Faramir and Eowyn met before perhaps at some point?
"We have not had dealings with the Dwarves since the Dark Days." ~Haldir
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#2
Well, Eomer did mention that he saw Boromir when he passed through on his way to the Council of Elrond, and that he knew of Boromir's reputation as a warrior, so they at least knew of the Steward and his sons. I guess it's possible that Faramir may have been in Rohan at some point in the past, but it always seemed to me that Denethor kept him pretty close to home, or in Ithilien. And from the way their meeting is described in the book, I don't think Faramir and Eowyn ever met before. Or if they did, perhaps it was a long time ago, but you would someone as meticulous in detail as Tolkien would have fed us a line if they had known each other already. So I guess, my answer is 'no'. Gee, that's awfully wordy 'no' isn't it?
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#3
i think that they probably didnt. there always seemed a little bit of tension to me between denethor and theoden. i cant explain it but i could never imagine them liking each other and so if they didnt then they would allow their children to go and visit each other (if that makes sense) in the book i think it is pretty clear that they dont know each other because otherise i think they would have stayed away from each other in the first place.

they may have met when they were children but i doubt it very much.
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#4
Yeah you guys are probably right, I mean Theoden and Denethor seemed kinda like they didn't back each other up in the past, I mean Theoden at Helms Deep was like "where was Gondor" when hes like kinda upbraiding Aragorn when Aragorns like trying to tell him Gondor will help. So yeah it seems like they weren't on the best of terms. Gondor and Rohan seem kinda seperate because they are dealing with the 2 different evil forces, Saruman and Sauron, so that kinda puts a rift in there. Anyway yeah they prolly didnt meet before. Its interesting how like the cultures of men are united at the end with a Gondorian (Faramir) marrying a Rohirrim (Eowyn), and a Rohirrim (Eomer) marrying a.....ummm.....geez wasnt his wife from like the south men? Hmm....Anyway Im rambling again. :bg:
"We have not had dealings with the Dwarves since the Dark Days." ~Haldir
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#5
In the book Theoden doesn't give off such frustration toward Gondor. The movie used this anger to emphasize Rohan's plight.
But I do tend to think that the communication between Gondor and Rohan, in relation to the Steward and the King, was more formal than familiar. That messengers and signals were the more common between Denethor and Theoden than, let's say, cozy chats over tea.
With all of that in mind, I doubt that as children Eowyn and Faramir had opportunity for personal contact.
As adults, each was respectively very wrapped up in the turmoil of their own household and homeland.
My impression is that Boromir's relationship with Rohan was gained through his military capacity as Captain-General of Gondor's forces, and as his father's representative. Eomer's regard for him seems to have been built on respect for him as a warrior and leader and a likeness of spirit sensed through these observations. Faramir's military role being more obscure, and his relationship with Denethor being as it was, it seems unlikely he'd've been sent to discuss operations with the allies on behalf of his father.
Still, it's an interesting thought.
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#6
Like so many other characters of Tolkien, Eowyn and Faramir were prabably distantly related. The grandmother of Eowyn and the mother of Faramir were both relatives of Imrahil, so it is likely they knew OF each other by name and general description.

But if Faramir had ever been to Rohan or Eowyn to Minas Tirith no doubt it would have been mentioned. Aragorn was Dunadain and fought both in Rohan and in Gondor, but I imagine that was an exception.

I haven't had a chance to look this up in the book, but in the TT movie Theoden says "I have fought many wars, master Dwarf; I know how to defend my own keep." Assuming this is from the book, then possibly Theoden has been to Gondor since where else has there been any wars in his lifetime.
In fact I remember Eowyn saying in the movie something about her grandfather fighting alongside Aragorn, but again: where have there been wars except in Gondor?
Remember Boromir's statement at the Council of Elrond "By our swords have your lands been kept free" (that IS from the book).

I think it very likely that Theoden's father had been to Gondor and there he met his Gondorian/Numeorean/Dunadain/Nimrodellian wife.
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#7
Interesting Queen Beetle,
Its something how it seems lots of Tolkien's characters are interrelated like that, with the mixing of very distant ancestors (like in Arwen and Aragorn's case).

Could Theoden be speaking of past wars with Saruman on his people? Hmm....what other big wars were there other than the Battle of the Last Alliance? Maybe Theoden's relatives fought with Gondor then, but that was way before Eowyn and Faramir. Maybe there had been little skirmishes or something requiring Rohan's assistance in Gondor's warfare?
"We have not had dealings with the Dwarves since the Dark Days." ~Haldir
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#8
Quote:Originally posted by queen beetle
Like so many other characters of Tolkien, Eowyn and Faramir were prabably distantly related. The grandmother of Eowyn and the mother of Faramir were both relatives of Imrahil, so it is likely they knew OF each other by name and general description.

But if Faramir had ever been to Rohan or Eowyn to Minas Tirith no doubt it would have been mentioned. Aragorn was Dunadain and fought both in Rohan and in Gondor, but I imagine that was an exception.

I haven't had a chance to look this up in the book, but in the TT movie Theoden says "I have fought many wars, master Dwarf; I know how to defend my own keep." Assuming this is from the book, then possibly Theoden has been to Gondor since where else has there been any wars in his lifetime.
In fact I remember Eowyn saying in the movie something about her grandfather fighting alongside Aragorn, but again: where have there been wars except in Gondor?
Remember Boromir's statement at the Council of Elrond "By our swords have your lands been kept free" (that IS from the book).

I think it very likely that Theoden's father had been to Gondor and there he met his Gondorian/Numeorean/Dunadain/Nimrodellian wife.

I expect that the battles Theoden is referring to would be with the Dunlendings. They were rather miffed when Eorl rode in some five hundred (I think) years previous and took over the joint. Luckily for the Rohirrim, they made buds with Gondor, who basically told them they could have Rohan, but didn't bother to ask the Dunlendings how they felt about it. As a result, the men of Dunland were more or less consistently trying to get Rohan back. That's why they were so eager to fight alongside Saruman.
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#9
Quote:I expect that the battles Theoden is referring to would be with the Dunlendings. They were rather miffed when Eorl rode in some five hundred (I think) years previous and took over the joint. Luckily for the Rohirrim, they made buds with Gondor, who basically told them they could have Rohan, but didn't bother to ask the Dunlendings how they felt about it. As a result, the men of Dunland were more or less consistently trying to get Rohan back. That's why they were so eager to fight alongside Saruman.


Well, did Gondor come to Rohan's aide fighting when the Rohirrim were fighting the Dunlendings? I mean maybe if Gondor came to help Rohan out, then Faramir and Eowyn MIGHT have met, but were those wars before their time?
"We have not had dealings with the Dwarves since the Dark Days." ~Haldir
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#10
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Religio Medici
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#11
Quote:Luckily for the Rohirrim, they made buds with Gondor, who basically told them they could have Rohan, but didn't bother to ask the Dunlendings how they felt about it. As a result, the men of Dunland were more or less consistently trying to get Rohan back.


I know this is a bit off topic, but does anyone else think that Gondor is representative of the Bristish Empire? The way that Ebony phrased it just reminded me of the way England took over and never bothered to make efforts with the "natives". As for Eowyn and Faramir meeting, I find it highly unlikely. I'm not sure about this, but didn't Faramir say something abot her beauty? If so, then wouldn't he have remembered meeting her beforehand? Probably not, but its just a thought. :anxious:
:crazy:
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#12
Remember that the land that the Rohirrim took was in actuality an old province of Gondor, now depopulated. The King of Gondor had every right to dispose of it as he saw fit.
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Religio Medici
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#13
Man I should brush up on the Appendices, the Gondor and Rohan portions especially...:bg: Is there much about Rohan and Gondor interactions in the Sil? (sorry this is book!) ahem back to the movies.....hmmm....:bg:
"We have not had dealings with the Dwarves since the Dark Days." ~Haldir
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#14
Sorry; there is more in the HoME vols 6-9, but the main source are the Appendices.
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Religio Medici
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#15
Hey there my good Attalus, I shall search the Appendicies for more information!! Thank goodness for them!
"We have not had dealings with the Dwarves since the Dark Days." ~Haldir
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#16
Hmm...theres some good stuff in the UT too about Gondor/Rohan relations...I'm reading that, man its so much stuff!! WOW!! :bg:
"We have not had dealings with the Dwarves since the Dark Days." ~Haldir
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