sith origins.. confused
#1
one question... how is it possible that palpatine got the position as the sith lord without the knowledge of the jedi.. surely such a powerful jedi cannot go unnoticed in their advancement with the force..? i don't understand how he can rise to such a position unnoticed.. and who trained him to have such mastery of the force?

just a thought.. hope it makes sense.
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#2
The Sith aren't Jedi... don't confuse a dark jedi with a Sith lord.

Long ago the Sith were many, but they had the propensity to battle each other as much as the Jedi. Then one Sith lord decided that the best way was to have just one Master and one Aprentice with the rank of Master usually being awarded to the aprentice after challenging their master and winning.

So basically Darth Sidious was trained by his master just as he trained Darth Maul. If Darth Maul had lived he eventually would have challenged his master Sidious to assume the rank of master. He then would have trained his own aprentice.

So the Jedi knew nothing of them. They in fact had no knowledge if the Sith were still around because they hadn't heard from them in a long long time.
:alien: Sci-Fi needs reality TV as much as it needs a Hammer! :mad:
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#3
but palpatine frequently interacts with the Jedi Council.. how come they can't sense his power, and that he is tainted?
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#4
Because the Sith have made an art of subterfuge and in using the force to mask their presense.

And the Jedi could sense an imbalence in the force, but it was clouded....even from Yoda who aaprently was an extreme;y gifted Jedi.

EDITED TO ADD:

My guess is that they probably could sense that he was gifted, but so are many people whom the Jedi never recruited into their ranks. Since they only train them from childhood they would have just thought of him as another potential they had missed.
:alien: Sci-Fi needs reality TV as much as it needs a Hammer! :mad:
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#5
The actual Sith were originally a different race but they died out under their own treachery, power and greed.

As far as Palpatine goes according to the official Star Wars Site he found the secrets of the Sith and trained himself, then chose an apprentice. As well in his training he learned to hide his power from the Jedi.
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#6
Quote:Originally posted by odacer
The actual Sith were originally a different race but they died out under their own treachery, power and greed.

As far as Palpatine goes according to the official Star Wars Site he found the secrets of the Sith and trained himself, then chose an apprentice. As well in his training he learned to hide his power from the Jedi.


Really? Do you have a link to this? Is this now an actual history that contradicts the previous version odacer? :anxious:
:alien: Sci-Fi needs reality TV as much as it needs a Hammer! :mad:
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#7
Being that I cannot find the info on the official site at the moment I will leave you with this:

http://www.geocities.com/ge_rpger/sithorigin.html

It appears to be from an RPG but the fully Liscensed Star Wars RPG (The original and the d20 version have this history) as well as the Lucas Arts Game Knights of the old republic. I know it isn't proof but I am still looking.

When I get more time will dig up better proof
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#8
Okay... I thought differently because of the story I'd heard from the comic books.

But that's a whole new angle for Palpatine I've never heard of.
:alien: Sci-Fi needs reality TV as much as it needs a Hammer! :mad:
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#9
Quote:Originally posted by odacer
The actual Sith were originally a different race but they died out under their own treachery, power and greed.

As far as Palpatine goes according to the official Star Wars Site he found the secrets of the Sith and trained himself, then chose an apprentice. As well in his training he learned to hide his power from the Jedi.


If that's the case about Palpatine, that would be interesting. Meaning he was never an original Sith.

I'm unclear on any of the actual history of the Sith and am waiting to see what Lucas clears up in Episode III.
I can imagine quite a bit.
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#10
I am thinking that we are all right in one way or another. Things have gotten a little skewed. I personally like it the way I heard it, it is a little more fantastic and amusing
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#11
In AOTC Mace Windu and Yoda discuss the diminished powers of the jedi. Do they feel this because they learn there must be a Sith Lord running about and couldn't detect him, or is there some other explanation? Yoda and Mace have an angsty moment after which they decide to inform the Senate of their diminished power.

~ Matt
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#12
Is Count Dooku Palpatine's new apprentice then? But Dooku seems to have turned Dark and been inside Palpatine's plans for a long time.

Could Yoda be mistaken about "One Sith, One Apprentice", and that Palpatine has a harem of apprentices?
:deadhorse:
"A Iluvatarinya! En na pelecco carinyesse!"
"Oh my God! There's an axe in my head!" :worry:

http://www.yamara.com/axe/#Q1
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#13
I've never understood Lucas' need to introduce Darth Maul, kill him off, then introduce Count Dooku in AOTC. In the first trilogy Luke is tempted by the emperor to kill Vader and take his place, across all 3 movies. It could have worked really well to have Anakin follow a similar process. For example:

If from the beginning of TPM Dooku was the Apprentice (no Darth Maul at all), Sidious could have used him to gain Anakin's trust. In AOTC Anakin learns it is Dooku leading the Rebellion and feels betrayed, thus setting up an antagonistic relationship between the two. The face off between Anakin and Dooku in AOTC would have had greater weight and significance, setting up a "You really let me down, Uncle Dooku" showdown between Anakin and Dooku in the 3rd movie, so that when Anakin strikes down Dooku with all his hate, that completes his journey to the dark side, and then he can rule the Empire at Palpatine's side.

To Coconut Ent

Palpatine could tempt Anakin with the line:

"Ani...join me...join my harem and be my sweet concubine!"

~ Matt
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#14
Quote:Originally posted by mpee
I've never understood Lucas' need to introduce Darth Maul, kill him off, then introduce Count Dooku in AOTC. In the first trilogy Luke is tempted by the emperor to kill Vader and take his place, across all 3 movies. It could have worked really well to have Anakin follow a similar process. For example:~ Matt


Actually, this is where the (Two Sith Rule) falls short because in the original trilogy Darth Vader convinces the Emperor that Luke would be an asset to their team. There was never any talk about Vader being killed. I don't believe the Emperor ever intended for Vader to be killed by Luke if necessary. (Although Vader may have intended to kill the Emperor eventually and take Luke as his aprentice as he pleaded with him on Cloud City.)

In the expanded universe there's also other aides to the Emperor who are Sith as well... :anxious: Even in the new animated version.

I have to agree though that Darth Maul was much kewler than old Dooku. Rolleyes
:alien: Sci-Fi needs reality TV as much as it needs a Hammer! :mad:
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#15
Quote:Originally posted by mpee
I've never understood Lucas' need to introduce Darth Maul, kill him off, then introduce Count Dooku in AOTC. In the first trilogy Luke is tempted by the emperor to kill Vader and take his place, across all 3 movies. It could have worked really well to have Anakin follow a similar process. For example:

If from the beginning of TPM Dooku was the Apprentice (no Darth Maul at all), Sidious could have used him to gain Anakin's trust. In AOTC Anakin learns it is Dooku leading the Rebellion and feels betrayed, thus setting up an antagonistic relationship between the two. The face off between Anakin and Dooku in AOTC would have had greater weight and significance, setting up a "You really let me down, Uncle Dooku" showdown between Anakin and Dooku in the 3rd movie, so that when Anakin strikes down Dooku with all his hate, that completes his journey to the dark side, and then he can rule the Empire at Palpatine's side.

To Coconut Ent

Palpatine could tempt Anakin with the line:

"Ani...join me...join my harem and be my sweet concubine!"

~ Matt


LOL!! I once joked to a friend some what the Emperor could possibly want with young Luke!! I almost got thumped.
:deadhorse:
"A Iluvatarinya! En na pelecco carinyesse!"
"Oh my God! There's an axe in my head!" :worry:

http://www.yamara.com/axe/#Q1
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#16
THE ANCIENT JEDI

170,000 years ago, in the Vordarian Beltway Galaxy, 850 trillion light years from our Milky Way Galaxy, a saga began. The Sith were discovered on their home world, Korriban, by the millennia old Galactic Republic. (This was about 75,000 years after the formation of the Galactic Republic under the first Supreme Chancellor, Merk Quanto.) The Sith were a primitive species, but had a powerful secret form of magic and religion. They had existed peacefully for centuries, undiscovered. Unfortunately, it was shortly after their discovery and the founding of the Jedi Order that an imbalance was created.

Kaja Sinis was a Civian born on Coruscant 25,000 years before The Phantom Menace. He was the first Jedi and founder of the Order of Jedi Bendu Knights. The term Jedi meant “light bringer” in the Civian language. Sinis created the techniques allowing one to use the Force. He discovered two sides of the Force, the good side (called “Ashla” in Civian) and the dark side (called “Bogan” in Civian). In the early years, it was the duty of a Jedi to study both the Ashla and the Bogan, but serve the Ashla or good side.

His first student or padawan was Shintor Beerus, a Twi’lek Sinis discovered on the planet Nefarion. The Jedi Academy on Coruscant grew large under the two and eventually the Civian home world, Ophuchi, was transformed into the Jedi stronghold. Kaja Sinis, aided by the Jedi scientist, Cobar Jacash, created the first light saber, as well as the first Jedi Holocron, a small hand-held cube which contained Jedi history. Cobar Jacash was a Bomewright from Sullest. Future Jedi light saber scientists tended to be Bomewrights as well.

Kaja Sinis built his light saber by finding a crystal on a secret planet to create the blade of light. Every Jedi followed in this path. They went to this secret planet and had to find either a green, blue or purple crystal in order to create their light saber. Whether this secret planet is identical with Vronioc, the most Force-sensitive planet in the Galaxy, of the Jedi stronghold planet, Ophuchi, is not known. After finding their crystal, Jedi constructed their own light sabers, often with the assistance of a Bomerwright Jedi scientist.

After training Beerus, Sinis trained many padawans, including Oton Grent, Issius Pallon, Quotar Forsh and Whel Baroc. Beerus trained many padawans as well, including Xis Latos, Don Votal, Eegis Plati and Yag Malore. The Jedi supported the Peace established by the Republic. Sadly, in Sinis’ lifetime, the Dark Jedi were created by a rogue Jedi named Zooti Frugan. Dark Jedi could act as free agents, choosing any color of light saber they could create and even training themselves without a master. These Dark Jedi studied both sides of the Force, but emphasized the dark side or the Bogan. With the rebellion of Zooti Froogan and others, the Jedi Council under Kaja Sinis saw that an imbalance had been created, so the practice of studying the dark side was disbanded. Nonetheless, the Dark Jedi were already flourishing.

The Sith were conquered by Dark Jedi who adopted their form of magic in Sinis’ lifetime. These Jedi called themselves Sith Lords. The first known Sith Lord of recorded history was Darth Scarz. In imitation of the Jedi Holocron, the Sith made their own holocron, the Sith Holocron. The tension between the two sides eventually came to a head at the Battle of Omicras, the first major conflict between the Sith and Jedi. Nonetheless, the Sith Lords remained and continued to grow the Sith Order including non-Sith species in their Order, as one Sith Dynasty succeeded another.

Kaja Sinis slew 3 Sith Lords and 17 Dark Jedi in his life due to their attacks on the Jedi. The 3 Sith Lords were Darth Mirage, Darth Sinistar and Darth Horrar. The 17 Dark Jedi were discovered and slain in the Dungstaka Uprising on the planet Natisular. Kaja Sinis was eventually assassinated at the ripe age of 187 under the orders of Prince Ganchok Krancore of Utarius, by a bounty hunter named Harbontin Dumis. Dumis slew Sinis by means of a fireball explosion, from which the tradition of burning a Jedi in a funeral pyre originated. After Sinis’ death, Beerus took over the Jedi Order. He recorded a prophecy made to him by Kaja Sinis in the Jedi Holocron. It regarded the One who would bring Balance to the Force. Shintor Beerus survived to the age of 174. His Jedi Holocron was lost and not rediscovered for several millennia.

Several millennia of strife between Jedi and Sith ensued. 5,000 years before The Phantom Menace, a Dark Jedi named Jeer Dexton created the Order of the Dark Jedi, who refused the discipline of the Sith. The Sith continued as well. 4,000 years before The Phantom Menace, the Sith were ruled by Darth Revan, succeeded by his apprentice, Darth Malak. Darth Revan was slain by a Force avalanche. Darth Malak was seriously injured in a duel with Jedi Knight Kylo Spartos, which is why Darth Malak lost most of his jaw. Other important Sith of note in Sith History are Darth Tantalon and Darth Cladar of Ropetru. The legendary Darth Tantalon was one of the ten most powerful Sith in regards to Force ability. He was slain by a Force fireball. Darth Cladar was the physically strongest Sith ever. Darth Kanamite was the dumbest Sith ever and lasted only a few days as a Sith. He was a short-lived apprentice in the Sith Order of Darth Bane. Kanamite died on his first mission.

While the dark side of the Force created many great warriors, the light side of the Force did as well. 2,000 years before The Phantom Menace, the most formidable light saber fighter before Yoda lived, the amazing Yendar Platis. Yendar Platis had six arms and could use six light sabers at a time. Another fascinating Jedi was the renowned Jedi scientist Crutus Penari. Penari succeeded in creating a yellow-bladed light saber, which could actually slice through any other light saber. This light saber was called the Penari light saber. The Jedi Council considered the light saber too dangerous and it was destroyed with its blueprints. Of even greater note than either Yendar Platis or Crutus Penari was the beautiful Ce Ce Denowai from the planet Rotteron. She had a higher midichlorian count than any female Jedi ever. Of course, the Jedi had to have their clumsier, less intelligent Jedi. The biggest buffoon of the Jedi was Zistar Flamgag.
Today if this be our destiny, then so be it, but let history remeber, that as free men we chose to make it so!
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#17
Palpatine took on an apprentice named Darth Voltres. Darth Voltres, while still an apprentice himself, apprenticed Darth Orcron and possibly others, breaking the Sith Rule of Two. Palpatine found out and sliced Darth Voltres in half, from head to torso, then hunted down and slew Darth Orcron as well. (It is possible one of Voltres’ surviving students trained Asajj Ventress of Rattatak, who claimed to be a Sith warrior when Count Dooku discovered her.)

Undaunted, Palpatine sought out a new apprentice. He found a very young Zabrak on Iridonia named Khameir Sarin. Succeeding Palpatine’s tests, Khameir Sarin began to be known as Darth Maul. Before the Sith revealed their existence to the Jedi, Darth Maul succeeded in slaying 3 Jedi: Barco Trellius, Roro Fergus and Ji-Dis Flar. Darth Maul revealed himself to the Jedi, as shown in The Phantom Menace.

Some of the Jedi in The Phantom Menace were in fact the most powerful Jedi in history. Not only was Yoda of Grentarik one of the most powerful Jedi ever, but so were some of his colleagues on the Jedi Council including Plo Koon of Dorin, Yarael Poof the Quermian, Even Piell the Lannik and, of course, the amazing Mace Windu. Yarael Poof was trained by Zinkor Dawn and Even Piell was trained by Haccor Topkin.

Mace Windu came from Erberius and was related to another formidable Jedi, Usby Thape. However, Mace Windu ended up being trained by someone he was not related to, Cloto Nervon. Mace Windu in turn trained Depa Billaba and Ipto Follers, and fought Dark Jedi Barkius Zok. Let us not forget Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his apprentice, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Qui-Gon Jinn came from planet Hargithon. Obi-Wan was born on the yellow rocky world of Pilegias. As a very young boy, he was found on the planet Kelchase and given by his parents to the Jedi Order.
Today if this be our destiny, then so be it, but let history remeber, that as free men we chose to make it so!
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#18
Knight of Avalon posted pretty much the same thing here but thanks for the info.

https://www.sf-fandom.com/vbulletin/show...adid=12578
I can imagine quite a bit.
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