Who is Anakin's father?
#1
In the "Ask Yoda" thread, I asked "who or what is Anakin's father?"

RobRoy replied:
Quote: Apparently Lucas opted out on this one too. Shmi says, "There was no father. I carried him, I gave birth, I raised him, I can't explain what happened."

Apparently, Anakin was created by the midichlorines or the Force or something. Virgin birth if you will. Weak script writing I call it.

Well, I thought about it and thought about it, and I decided I really can't just leave it at that.

No such phenomenon, IIRC, was hinted at in the first trilogy; had Lucas even thought up this little detail as of that time, or did he make it up as he went, like the idea of Daddy Vader-Brother Luke-Sis Leia is said to have been? Surely the importance of such a circumstance would have been revealed by the climax of RoTJ at least, one might think!

If the question as phrased has no discoverable answer within the Star Wars canon, surely nonetheless Lucas must have intended something by throwing this idea out. After all, it shouldn't have taken too much imagination to supply a mysterious heroic father for Anakin.

I guess most everyone is aware that there are funny little cults :bg: scattered around the world, whose doctrines mention a virgin birth quite prominently. Therefore, IMHO that's a heckuvan idea to just toss out randomly in an instance of "bad scriptwriting"!

Was Lucas trying to make Anakin into a figure analogous to Christ? If so, where was he going with this? Is this tied to the idea of a jedi saviour who would "bring balance to the Force?" If Anakin is the one, in what sense did he do so, by the end of RoTJ? Surely such a portentious phrase means more than he simply will pick up the nasty ol' Emperor and toss him down a ventilation shaft?!

Do you think the last installment might explain these issues abit, seeing as RoTJ apparently did not? What did Lucas intend by invoking the idea of virgin birth for Anakin Skywalker?
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#2
I don't know the answers to these questions. I do believe Lucas made them up like I kind of think on Leia being Luke's sister (there is the hint of another in ESB).

I hope the answers will all come in Episode III and it'll be clear cause there are supposed to be no more movies after that.

Anyone else have ideas? Thoughts?
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#3
She probably did the nasty with Palpatine. *envisions a mirror scene of ESB in Ep III... "I am your Father!" "Nooooo.......* :tongue:
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#4
Maybe it was weak script writing, but I think maybe she didn't want to remember the father, because he might of abandoned her, or she might have been raped by some man, with the medichlorines(sp?), but didn't know he was able to use the Force.
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#5
Quote:Originally posted by Persephone
Maybe it was weak script writing, but ... she might have been raped by some man, with the medichlorines(sp?), but didn't know he was able to use the Force.


That's a notion that occurred to me. Schmi was a slave, after all, and we could speculated she might well have been sexually exploited, maybe even to the point of being hired out to men, one of whom could have been "strong with the force".:coffee:

Then she blocks out the memory and convinces herself she conceived spontanously? Still very very weak, IMHO.

Nonetheless, whatever the "truth" behind Anakin's miraculous conception might be, one still must ask what Lucas intended by invoking the very idea of virgin birth, or else say: Bad George! Poor scriptwriting! Contrived scriptwriting! No dessert or TV for you!
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#6
Quote:Originally posted by Persephone
Maybe it was weak script writing, but I think maybe she didn't want to remember the father, because he might of abandoned her, or she might have been raped by some man, with the medichlorines(sp?), but didn't know he was able to use the Force.

We always read the books before seeing the movies, and when she says the bit about "There was no father" I just figured she meant she`d been raped or hired out for pleasure and just didn`t want to think about it. Somehow I totally overlooked the rest of the references to the role of midichlorians. Then the way she says the line in the movie I went "HUH?!" Went back and reread the bits in the book and wondered how I`d missed it the first time. Never thought about her conceiving from a man who had a high midichlorian count and/or was strong with the Force. I much prefer this idea to the "virgin birth" scenario. Lucas should hire you. :clap:
Hope, D`Argo.... I have HOPE. John

Too many stories are nothing more than connected vignettes of codified symbols used to tell the audience where the plot currently stands like some sort of checklist Mirage
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#7
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alvin Eriol
That's a notion that occurred to me. Schmi was a slave, after all, and we could speculated she might well have been sexually exploited, maybe even to the point of being hired out to men, one of whom could have been "strong with the force".:coffee:

Then she blocks out the memory and convinces herself she conceived spontanously? Still very very weak, IMHO.

Agreed it`s weak, but still preferable to what it seems at this point that George wants us to believe.

Nonetheless, whatever the "truth" behind Anakin's miraculous conception might be, one still must ask what Lucas intended by invoking the very idea of virgin birth, or else say: Bad George! Poor scriptwriting! Contrived scriptwriting! No dessert or TV for you!
:bounce: Indeed! You tell `im!
Hope, D`Argo.... I have HOPE. John

Too many stories are nothing more than connected vignettes of codified symbols used to tell the audience where the plot currently stands like some sort of checklist Mirage
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#8
The name Anakin sounds like the Anakim mentioned in the Old Testament. They were mistaken as the Nephilim present prior to Noah's flood. These were half angels half human males of superhuman strength and size. Wonder if Lucas had this in mind a little when he came up with the name.
Smile
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#9
I think it's supposed to be an allegory. Anakin as Jesus. The Virgin Birth. The whole bit.

Maybe he didn't mean it do be an allegory, but slipped bits of his religion in with his movies. Like J.R.R. Tolkien. He didn't intend LOTR to be an allegory, he was just so religious that he slipped in stuff from the Bible into his writing. Purely by accident.
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#10
Quote:Originally posted by Unregistered
I think it's supposed to be an allegory. Anakin as Jesus. The Virgin Birth. The whole bit.

Okay, that was kinda my point. However, the other part of my point remains: it is IMHO rather poor writing to invoke a very powerful and central concept from any religion offhandedly, without doing something with it. Now that Lucas has given this characteristic to Anakin, he should reveal in the next movie (since it will, per his own statement, be the last) exactly what this means and what its significance might be. As I said, it was never revealed in the first trilogy.

Quote: Maybe he didn't mean it do be an allegory, but slipped bits of his religion in with his movies. Like J.R.R. Tolkien. He didn't intend LOTR to be an allegory, he was just so religious that he slipped in stuff from the Bible into his writing. Purely by accident.


Hmmmm. I don't know about "purely by accident". Virgin birth is an incredibly obvious, characteristic phenomenon to just sublimate without the author being aware of it. Even if George had jotted it down without thinking and forgot about it, one would think that the myriad people who would have to have read and worked on it during pre-production would have brought it to his attention, doubtless asking as I have what he intended by it, and whether Anakin was going to walk on water or turn water to wine in the last installment.

While as you say JRRT didn't write LOTR with the express intent of producing a morality tale, it is well known as a devout practicing Catholic he did endow his characters with strengths and weaknesses, ethics and lack thereof, defined by Catholic Christianity as he understood it. And he probably would never have incorporated something as overt and powerful as a virgin birth; he once wrote in a letter that the Incarnation of God was something far greater than he could deal with in a fictional tale in a manner consistent with the theology of the faith to which he subscribed.

I must wonder particularly what George Lucas might intend by invoking the idea of virgin birth because the theology of Star Wars seems to be Eastern, probably Buddhist or Hindu, more so than evangelical/traditional Christian.

Furthermore, statements GL has made in interviews and whatnot I've seen seem to indicate his own religious beliefs are fairly eclectic and amorphous, with (at minimum) noticeable Buddist or Hindu elements. (If anyone has any more explicit or authoritative info on this last point, I'd be happy for them to correct or clarify me.) Therefore, I must wonder all the more why he would incorporate an obvious significant Christian element, without at least having some intended relationship of such an element to the basic themes and conflicts of the entire saga, as it seems to me would be inevitable.
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For I was talking aloud to myself...the old...choose the wisest person present to speak to...
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#11
Anakins father will never be revealed...remember, anakin and shmi were PURCHASED, so a father must've been PURCHASED by someone else, so the only way to find Anakin's father would be through the mother...in this case is no longer an option. Anakin's father shall never be revealed...but, if lucas wants to expand the story, he can make a comic book business, and make a line of "pre- episode I" comics, which would include the origin and demise of The Sith, Qui-Gon's adventures, Anakin's family matters, and the training of Obi Wan. Plus, maybe some Jenga Fett hunts. that'd be kick .
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#12
Quote:Originally posted by Tenaciousd1212
Anakins father will never be revealed...remember, anakin and shmi were PURCHASED, so a father must've been PURCHASED by someone else, so the only way to find Anakin's father would be through the mother...in this case is no longer an option. Anakin's father shall never be revealed...but, if lucas wants to expand the story, he can make a comic book business, and make a line of "pre- episode I" comics, which would include the origin and demise of The Sith, Qui-Gon's adventures, Anakin's family matters, and the training of Obi Wan. Plus, maybe some Jenga Fett hunts. that'd be kick .


There has already been a comic book mini series called Jango Fett:Open Seasons which covers how Jango became a bounty hunter and met Count Dooku.

There is also a comic that comes out now called Star Wars:Republic which covers the period between the Episode II and III regarding the Clone Wars.

None of these stories are actually written by Lucas though.
I can imagine quite a bit.
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#13
Quote:Originally posted by Tenaciousd1212
Anakins father will never be revealed...remember, anakin and shmi were PURCHASED, so a father must've been PURCHASED by someone else, so the only way to find Anakin's father would be through the mother...in this case is no longer an option.


Sorry, I don't agree. It seems pretty clear to me that Lucas was invoking a "virgin birth" mythos for his film. Shmi doesn't know how it happened, and theories that she was raped and blocked it out, or otherwise just don't seem to add up with the character that we know as Shmi or the universe that is Star Wars. Not that these theories are impossible, but it seems reasonably clear that Lucas is invoking within Anakin/Vader a Christ-like mythos.

It's weak writing in my opinion and attempts to support it through some alternate version don't seem to hold much water.
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#14
I think someone should just write George Lucas and ask him. It is kinda strange to put in something like that and then not take it anywhere. Whenever somebody mentions a virgin birth, people think of Christianity. Maybe he resents the fact that there is a monopoly on that idea, if you know what I mean, and wants to get rid of that monopoly and free up the idea for other storytellers to use. Am I making sense?


Maybe he just wanted to antagonize people like us and provoke us into getting into large debates about it. Just a thought.
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#15
Hello, Unregistered! :wave:

LOL on writing to George Lucas. Are you volunteering then? Please let us know when he responds. Actually it`s not a bad idea. If enough people do it then he might actually get a chance to read at least a few of them and give an answer.

And yes, getting "rid of the monopoly and free[ing] up the idea for other storytellers to use does make sense. I mean I understand what you`re saying.
Hope, D`Argo.... I have HOPE. John

Too many stories are nothing more than connected vignettes of codified symbols used to tell the audience where the plot currently stands like some sort of checklist Mirage
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#16
I'm not Unregistered anymore, thanks Wink . Does anyone know where I could send a letter or an email that would actually reach George Lucas? I mean, where could I send it so he would really read it. He probably gets tons of fan mail and stuff and I wonder if he doesn't just throw it all out, I mean that's what I would do :bg: . But yeah, you guys should probably do this too, like you said, if he gets enough people asking him this than he might give us an answer.

By the way, is there an official Star Wars site? Most of my Web-surfing up till now has had to do with Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, but I'm finally getting a big enough interest in Star Wars to start looking for some sites. Do you guys know of any good ones? And do they have any Star Wars RPGs? I don't want to get this thread off-topic, but I'm new to this.
Elementary, my dear Watson
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#17
Welcome, Goldmare, to the Star Wars forum on SF-Fandom. To answer some of your questions, the official website should be starwars.com. On your RPG question there is RPG with a rule book that is available by Wizards of the Coast. Check out wizards.com or there is a new computer game called Star Wars Galaxies that is an online RPG I beleive.

On your Lucas question, unless you know his direct mailing address, you're probably right, his fan/email will probably get screened before it ever gets to him.
I can imagine quite a bit.
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#18
I've notice that on ezboard ( http://www.ezboard.com ) there are alot of Star Wars forums that are dedicated to Star Wars role playing, though I think this may be along the lines of role playing / fan fiction in the forums rather than traditional role playing like Wizards of the Coast.

Also there's the massive online role playing game Star Wars Galaxies which is similar to (and done by the same people) as Everquest. Of course, you have to spend 50 bucks for the game and then pay a monthly subscription fee to play
"In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, lived a strange race of people: the Druids. No one knows who they were, or what they were doing, but their legacy remains hewn into the living rock ... of Stonehenge"
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#19
Quote:Originally posted by Unregistered
I think someone should just write George Lucas and ask him. It is kinda strange to put in something like that and then not take it anywhere. Whenever somebody mentions a virgin birth, people think of Christianity. Maybe he resents the fact that there is a monopoly on that idea, if you know what I mean, and wants to get rid of that monopoly and free up the idea for other storytellers to use. Am I making sense?


Maybe he just wanted to antagonize people like us and provoke us into getting into large debates about it. Just a thought.
Yes the whole way he handled (or more accurately not handled) the virgin birth thing is annoying.

After all it's a major, out-of-the-ordinary plotpoint which additionally resonates with the Christian virgin birth, and therefore peaks our interest as something that you would think has more meaning, yet he discards it out of hand
"In ancient times, hundreds of years before the dawn of history, lived a strange race of people: the Druids. No one knows who they were, or what they were doing, but their legacy remains hewn into the living rock ... of Stonehenge"
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#20
Thanx for the info, peoples! Smile


:up:
Elementary, my dear Watson
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