Linguistic questions.
#1
Okay, so I'm not sure how many understand the linguistic rules for Sindarin but I have some questions in case anyone does:

"mountain-home" in Sindarin would be Barorod, yes? Would it be contracted at all, say to Barod? I'd translate it into Khuzdul but we don't know enough etymology for that.
 
"treasure-valley" in Sindarin would be Mirimlad, yes? Or Mírimlad? I'm unsure how to modify mîr.


Sereg + caran ("Blood-Red").  I'm pretty sure the g and c would gloss together, and we've seen the second 'a' be dropped in Carn Dûm. Serecarn? Seregarn?

What would "snow blossom" be? Losslúth feels...weird.

Do we have a word for "yellow" that isn't "gold"?

And, finally: One of the names of Lenwë, the Elf leader who lead those who refused to cross the Misty Mountains, was Dan (also Denweg & Denwego) and from there we get Denethor (Primitive Elvish Ndani-thārō, meaning "Saviour of the Dani"). Would, then, the name Daniel be a sufficient name for a granddaughter (a daughter of Denethor, for instance)? I do find it amusing that it is a male name in English but with a female patronym in Elvish.
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#2
I don't claim to know much Sindarin, but I've picked up a bit, especially for toponymy (which is where I think most new Tolkien fans encounter it, i.e. on the maps and in place-names)

I would think that some clunky multisyllables would tend to get a bit worn down over time (or among Elves made melodious), especially among Men who adopt Sindarin to some degree for borrow-words if not their everyday tongue. In some of my fanfic I supposed that a crown prince/heir to the kingship would be titled Tar-Ernil (High-Prince), and by the 3rd Age might often be contracted to T'ernil. Interesting speculation about an Elvish use of "Daniel"!
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For I was talking aloud to myself...the old...choose the wisest person present to speak to...
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#3
(October 19th, 2022, 08:41 PM)Alvin Eriol Wrote: Interesting speculation about an Elvish use of "Daniel"!

Thank you!  ^_^
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#4
I'm not a linguist, either, but I do know there are different dialects. So that influences how the words are combined.

I'm not aware of any official group of Sindarin experts, but there are plenty of people who share what they've learned on the Web. Here are a couple of sites where you might learn more.

Phonology of Tolkien Elvish
https://phonologyoftolkienselvish.weebly.com/

Real Elvish Academy
https://academy.realelvish.net/
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#5
(October 21st, 2022, 12:40 PM)Michael Wrote: I'm not a linguist, either, but I do know there are different dialects. So that influences how the words are combined.

I'm not aware of any official group of Sindarin experts, but there are plenty of people who share what they've learned on the Web. Here are a couple of sites where you might learn more.

Phonology of Tolkien Elvish
https://phonologyoftolkienselvish.weebly.com/

Real Elvish Academy
https://academy.realelvish.net/

Thank you!
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#6
Let me begin my contribution by falling upon my sword, metaphorically, and then circling back to another sword for hopefully a more useful observation.

First of all "Mordomin" is not properly a Sindarin name.  Frankly, I created it for a minor character in a D&D campaign that I was running way back around the time that "The Silmarillion" was published.  It sounded "Tolkein-y", and it was for a minor elf-Prince/plot device, so that was the level of authenticity that it needed.

It is about on par with 'Halbrand' in that sense.

My players accepted it, and in the rough-and-tumble world of running a campaign, that counted as a win.

In fan-fiction about Mordomin, I have retconned several explanations about why his name doesn't quite fit the published Sindarin.  One depends on something that Michael alluded to above, that there are various dialects within the Elven language.  Which stands to reason, when you consider how the various Elven communities were separated by time, war, and geography.  Treebeard later told Mordomin that his 'name' as given to him by that obscure group of Elves didn't mean "Blackhand" it meant "Dark Fate".  Mordomin rejected that and said "I prefer Blackhand".  To which Treebeard hoom-homed and said "Of course you do."

:::hat tip to Michael and others who pointed out that 'mor' meant 'dark', not 'black'.::::

So don't let worries about linguistics keep you from telling a story.

Now, after establishing how horrible I am at creating Elvish words, I will give a few examples of my later attempts, and my methodology (if it can be called such).
Mordomin flees Eregion to Moria before the Armies of Sauron descend upon Ost-in-Ethil.  He takes refuge there, and befriends Durin and the weapons-crafters there.

Eventually, the Dwarves made for him two swords (and mail armor, but I digress):  Vórimáca, and a weapon to battle trolls, Ascatondo.

I constructed the name "Vórimáca" from the Quenya roots "vorima", which is "enduring" and "maica", which is "blade".

It worked out well that the name loosely translates as "the Durance Blade", because [spoiler alert] the sword gets destroyed by a Ringwraith.  The Dwarves made it to be 'unbreakable', but that didn't mean it couldn't be destroyed, just not broken by force.

When compressing word roots, you should also consider how the words would be spoken.  For example, "Luthien" would be pronounced as "Lootheein" without the " ù " accent.  Thus for example, I decided to compress 'maica' I would drop the 'i', but keep the long 'a' sound by using á.

As many have said of themselves while contributing to this thread, I am neither a linguist or philologist. I don't really know what the various accents really mean even though I can hit the key sequences to use them, LOL!
"Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'." - Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion
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#7
"The published Sindarin" represents several dialects. And then there is the Salo Sindarin, which David Salo developed for the movies. I don't know what they're using for Amazon's show - maybe they contracted with Salo for that, too.

There's no reason why you couldn't retcon the specific dialect that gave rise to mor + domin, even if the latter is a loanword from another language.
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#8
Exactly right, Michael! After being released from the dungeons of Tol-en-Gaurhoth by Luthien and Beren, the character who would become "Mordomin" wandered for a time and was no doubt sheltered/harbored by some Sindarin Elves who spoke a slightly different dialect, and who named him even as you suiggest.
"Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'." - Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion
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#9
It would be even more understandable if Men such as the Bëoreans, who had adopted Sindarin, had named him. Men being Men, one would expect more rapid proliferation of diverse dialects and idioms, and many of the Edain had been scattered after the Bragollach.

Just a thought.
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For I was talking aloud to myself...the old...choose the wisest person present to speak to...
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