February 2nd, 2021, 07:42 AM
What is it?
Machine, steam engine, undead horse or something else?
Machine, steam engine, undead horse or something else?
The mouth of Sauron's horse
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February 2nd, 2021, 07:42 AM
What is it?
Machine, steam engine, undead horse or something else?
February 2nd, 2021, 09:22 AM
Interesting. My first thought was that I didn’t recall anything to suggest that the Mouth’s mount was anything but a natural horse, but checking the text, I saw this.
Quote: ...there rode a tall and evil shape, mounted upon a black horse, if horse it was; for it was huge and hideous, and it’s face was a frightful mask, more like a skull than a living head, and in the sockets of its eyes and in its nostrils there burned a flame (emphasis added) If we take this passage literally, we must conclude that the horse was some sort of supernatural/unnatural being. A purely mechanical contraption seems to me unlikely.
Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.
I don't have any humble opinions.
February 2nd, 2021, 10:06 AM
I am thinking that since the Mouth is an ambassador, the horse is designed to frighten people.
I don't think it is a useful weapon in a fight. Fear is a primary weapon of Sauron. So i think it is possible that the horse is a primitive steam engine or machine.
February 2nd, 2021, 11:15 AM
Theoretically possible, but I judge it unlikely.
The earliest conception of dragons in BOLT was as mechanical creations used in the attack on Gondolin, so it is at least within the realm of possibility that Tolkien considered a mechanical steed for the Mouth. However, it must be noted that Tolkien eventually discarded the idea of mechanical dragons in favor of living creatures. Furthermore, there is literally nothing else shown to us in TA Middle Earth that looks even remotely like a machine of this type. A mechanical steed here simply does not seem to fit with the other glimpses we get of Middle Earth. Your mileage may vary.
Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.
I don't have any humble opinions.
February 2nd, 2021, 12:28 PM
Based on the description of the "horse" it must be either supernatural or something mechanical.
February 5th, 2021, 04:03 PM
It could have been a lesser maia trapped in evil horse form.
May 18th, 2021, 02:27 PM
(This post was last modified: May 18th, 2021, 02:28 PM by Alvin Eriol.)
I'm thinking it could be a critter of the same general derivation as maybe the "fell beasts" on which the Ringwraiths flew, i.e. some survivor or revived (genetically engineered? augmented with some 'bionics'?) critter from The Spring of Arda when monsters roamed Middle-Earth away from the preserve of the Valar, outlying regions where Mel held sway.
(Now I'm picturing those minions of the Evil Being in Time Bandits, tall shrieking-whinnying black-cloaked things with horse-skull faces that shot fireballs from their eye sockets!) I seem to recall Dragons were lesser Maiar trapped in beast-bodies that were altered monsters, presumably physically from the germ of serpents, but I can't find where I read that if I did.
Many Defeats & Many Fruitless Victories Memoirs Gateway
For I was talking aloud to myself...the old...choose the wisest person present to speak to...
May 18th, 2021, 10:09 PM
The nature of dragons has always been a matter for speculation. I think the main reason why people suspect there is a Maiaric connection is the passage in Narn i Hin Hurin where the narrative refers to the evil spirit Morgoth placed in Glaurung.
Of course, he could also have placed his own spirit in the dragons. Or maybe there were some other spirits he corrupted.
May 20th, 2021, 07:48 PM
There are many horse spirits in mythology such as Kelpies, etc. It might be like in Revelations with horsemen. Maybe it is a weird warg or like the Ringwraiths’ steeds.
Don't insult the precious, my precious!:book:
May 24th, 2021, 09:41 PM
There might be an obscure mythological or Biblical inspiration for the Mouth's horse. Tolkien cast his nets far and wide for inspiration. I wish I had time to look into this. It's an interesting idea.
May 25th, 2021, 08:25 AM
After thinking about it, there is also a possibility that it is a normal horse, that Sauron has put
a spell/illusion to look hideous. After all Sauron is a master of phantoms and illusions.
May 31st, 2021, 07:14 PM
For that matter, since the Ring was able to alter Gollum's physical appearance, Sauron could have altered a living creature - morphing it into the hellmount (or whatever one wishes to call it).
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