Elrond's Porch
#1
So I'm rereading the books again, and just realized the Council of Elrond takes place in the porch of the House. Funny how I never noticed it before. 

I'd always thought a secret council would be in some suitable hall or room, so this made me overlook all the indications the Elrond's Council was in his porch.

But then again, his in laws have meetings up a tree, so I shouldn't complain. 
:deadhorse:
"A Iluvatarinya! En na pelecco carinyesse!"
"Oh my God! There's an axe in my head!" :worry:

http://www.yamara.com/axe/#Q1
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#2
Interesting observation!

Elrond probably by that time has so secured the region around the Last Homely House within sight or hearing that he doesn't think even outdoor meetings dealing with matters he wouldn't want widely known, like the Ring and their plans for dealing with it, are at risk.

In the Primary World, at my latitude and further South back in the B.A.C. era (Before Air Conditioning), families basically all-but-lived on their porches in the hot months, because the interiors were unbearable and oven-hot on sunny days with little breeze. Older houses surviving from that era, especially 19th century, generally sport large porches, often running around two or even three sides of the house.

An extreme example, if you like, are the Charleston, SC, 2 and 3 story townhouses of a design brought by the original rice-planter colonists from Barbados whence many of them came. The gable ends face the street, and porches run alongside each story, with the ground floor porch meeting the sidewalk and fence at the street end.

A curious feature I'd noticed and wondered about was full exterior home doors in frames, rather than gates one would expect on yard entrances and porches, faced the sidewalk on the ground floor of the house's porch. It wasn't until a dear friend wanted to go on one of those group tours in a carriage (which I had disdained myself) that I heard the tourguide explain that custom. Because the house interiors were oven-hot during sunny days, the women of the household might pass much of the day on the 2nd or 3rd story porch not dressed for public presentation, often maybe only in shifts. Having that door at the street entrance preserved a polite fiction that they were nonentheless 'indoors!' In that genteel time, passersby would avert their eyes from the inhabitants of those upper-floor porches!

Here's a pretty typical example. In the original "classic" floor plan, interior rooms were as wide as the house, at each end of each story, with the entrances and stairs in the center section halfway between front and back of house.
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#3
(February 19th, 2020, 11:11 PM)Coconut Ent Wrote: So I'm rereading the books again, and just realized the Council of Elrond takes place in the porch of the House. Funny how I never noticed it before. 

I'd always thought a secret council would be in some suitable hall or room, so this made me overlook all the indications the Elrond's Council was in his porch.

But then again, his in laws have meetings up a tree, so I shouldn't complain. 
If you think that is weird, imagine how I felt when I re-read the books for the umpteenth time and realized (for the first time) that Frodo was staring longingly at my fan-fic character's house!

"‘I feel ready for anything,’ answered Frodo. ‘But most of all I should like to go walking today and explore the valley. I should like to get into those pine-woods up there.’ He pointed away far up the side of Rivendell to the north."

Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 239). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.

Now that I think about it, since the Fellowship didn't set out until several months after the Council of Elrond, Frodo would have had plenty of time to explore the environs of Rivendell.  It seems almost inevitable, from his stated wish, above, that he would have found the house of Mordomin.  Elrond had made sure that Mordomin was not home at the time that the Ring-bearer was present.  Frodo would not have been able to enter the house, but it is amusing to wonder what he would have made of it.
"Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'." - Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion
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#4
A quick dive into architectural history reveals that Greeks built porches into their temples. The porch is an open-air part of a building that is usually built next to or in front of a primary entrance.

I've often tried to visualize Elrond's porch but Tolkien didn't provide much detail. Based on the illustrations he made, I would say the house is wider than it is long and that the porch runs across the full front side of the house.

There are columns supporting the roof but Tolkien changed the shape in his illustrations.
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#5
I sort of liked PJ's interpretation in his movies, in which the proceedings took place in some covered freestanding structure like a big gazebo or park bandstand, up on a little hillock.
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#6
(February 24th, 2020, 11:54 PM)Alvin Eriol Wrote: I sort of liked PJ's interpretation in his movies, in which the proceedings took place in some covered freestanding structure like a big gazebo or park bandstand, up on a little hillock.
While these references are charming, nobody is making the case why Tolkien would have been modeling Rivendell after ancient Greece, let alone BAC Charleston, SC.  In regards to the latter, are there pine trees in the hills above Charleston?
"Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'." - Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion
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#7
I don't think Tolkien had ancient Greek temples in mind. I just mean that porches are very ancient architectural whatevers and they tend to meet certain criteria.
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#8
Actually, I thought it was a patio where they would have parties or cook outs.
Don't insult the precious, my precious!:book:
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#9
(March 1st, 2020, 05:35 PM)Mordomin Wrote: ...While these references are charming, nobody is making the case why Tolkien would have been modeling Rivendell after ancient Greece, let alone BAC Charleston, SC.  In regards to the latter, are there pine trees in the hills above Charleston?

I guess I thought of the Charleston Single House design as one that might offer as much porch as one might want for holding a major conference and powwow. I seem to recall reading that the Greek hypostyle & portico'd buildings such as temples were stone imitations of older pehaps Neolithic halls built in wood; the columns represent the tree trunks originally used. One might expect Elves would be open to architecture that imitates and complements the local flora.

There are certainly all the pine trees in "the hills above Charleston", SC, you could wish, but you must come almost 100 miles inland, to northern Orangeburg, Sumter, Calhoun, Richland, and Lexington Counties, before encountering any natural feature you could fairly describe as a real hill!
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For I was talking aloud to myself...the old...choose the wisest person present to speak to...
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#10
I don't suppose the porch is also where Glorfindel goes to have an after lunch nap?

Singing about the Blessed Land in the Hall of Fire? He's actually *been* there! He's heard the originals, rather than the cover versions in Imladris! Smile
:deadhorse:
"A Iluvatarinya! En na pelecco carinyesse!"
"Oh my God! There's an axe in my head!" :worry:

http://www.yamara.com/axe/#Q1
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