Was Sauron present at the sack of Eregion?
#1
It seems to me that I read, somewhere in HoMe that Sauron himself slew Celebrimbor before the doors of the Hall of the Mirdain.  It seemed as though it was supposed to echo Morgoth slaying Finwe before the doors of Feanor's house in Valinor.  Is my recollection right?
"Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'." - Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion
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#2
I believe the passage you're thinking of is in Unfinished Tales. But Sauron didn't slay Celebrimbor in battle (at least, not in the version of the history I recall). Celebrimbor was taken prisoner and tortured into revealing the locations of the Nine and the Seven.
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#3
The passage you want (and indeed the most detailed account of the Eregion war overall, with the perhaps "controversial" element that Eregion was originally founded and ruled by Galadriel and Celeborn) was in Unfinished Tales, "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn." A large portion of that chapter consisted of a considerable excerpt Chris Tolkien quoted from a JRRT document entitled "Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn". After Sauron's forces entered Ost-In-Edhel, it says:
Quote:Celebrimbor, desperate, himself withstood Sauron on the steps of the great door of the [House of] the Mírdain; but he was grappled and taken captive, and the House was ransacked. There Sauron took the Nine Rings [which presumably were there readily found and waiting to be picked up] and other lesser works of the Mírdain, but the Seven and the Three he did not find. Then Celebrimbor was put to torment, and Sauron learned from him where the Seven were bestowed. (...) Concerning the Three Rings Sauron could learn nothing from Celebrimbor, and he had him put to death. But he guessed the truth, that the Three had been committed to Elvish guardians, and that must mean Galadriel and Gil-Galad.

I guess this does in a way echo Finwë's attempt to defend his son's fortress/workshop/storehouse from Morgoth, and for that matter Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth. But, as Michael recalled, Celebrimbor was not slain in battle, but put to death after Sauron got as much info from him as he could.

This is apparently the passage Jaak had in mind when he once questioned whether the Seven and the Nine were indistinguishable from each other as I theorized, which is certainly a good point.
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#4
(February 6th, 2020, 02:09 PM)Alvin Eriol Wrote: The passage you want (and indeed the most detailed account of the Eregion war overall, with the perhaps "controversial" element that Eregion was originally founded and ruled by Galadriel and Celeborn) was in Unfinished Tales, "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn." A large portion of that chapter consisted of a considerable excerpt Chris Tolkien quoted from a JRRT document entitled "Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn". After Sauron's forces entered Ost-In-Edhel, it says:
Quote:Celebrimbor, desperate, himself withstood Sauron on the steps of the great door of the [House of] the Mírdain; but he was grappled and taken captive, and the House was ransacked. There Sauron took the Nine Rings [which presumably were there readily found and waiting to be picked up] and other lesser works of the Mírdain, but the Seven and the Three he did not find. Then Celebrimbor was put to torment, and Sauron learned from him where the Seven were bestowed. (...) Concerning the Three Rings Sauron could learn nothing from Celebrimbor, and he had him put to death. But he guessed the truth, that the Three had been committed to Elvish guardians, and that must mean Galadriel and Gil-Galad.

I guess this does in a way echo Finwë's attempt to defend his son's fortress/workshop/storehouse from Morgoth, and for that matter Fingolfin's duel with Morgoth. But, as Michael recalled, Celebrimbor was not slain in battle, but put to death after Sauron got as much info from him as he could.

This is apparently the passage Jaak had in mind when he once questioned whether the Seven and the Nine were indistinguishable from each other as I theorized, which is certainly a good point.
Thank you (both)!  The quote above strongly implies that the Seven had already been 'distributed' to the Dwarves, an idea that, IIRC, was later abandoned.

[Of course, as we all know, Sauron didn't capture ALL of the 'lesser works' at this time; he had to send Mordomin and some of his other servants after some of them...and their bearers!]
"Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'." - Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion
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#5
I don't agree that the passage implies the Seven had been given to the Dwarves. They could have been given to Elf keepers whom Sauron captured.
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#6
(February 11th, 2020, 09:16 PM)Michael Wrote: I don't agree that the passage implies the Seven had been given to the Dwarves. They could have been given to Elf keepers whom Sauron captured.
I agree that is completely possible, and there is nothing in the canon that I am aware of that says which one is more likely than the other.
"Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'." - Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion
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