Witch World books!
#1
I have been recently reading Andre Norton's books. So there are some notes I want to share.

Ware' Hawk tells of Falconer warrior. They seem to have a telepathic bond with their Falcons. While they do no use magic or spells they do seem to have some power. The Falcon and Falconer join their willpower to the main character who has some small talent to fight with power. 

A short story called Falcon Blood explains why Falconers hate and fear women and how a Falconer overcome his prejudice and bias against women.

Trey of swords comes first then Gate of the Cat then finally book Ware' Hawk it the last.
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#2
Thank you for your notes. The Falconer's do seem to have a telepathic bond with their Falcons.

I think that you have most of the books and stories by Andre Norton herself. However, I think that there is at least one more as I think that Pauline Griffin co-authored a book.

You should know that the short stories are mostly authored or co-authored by other authors, and don't always exactly follow the bible that Andre Norton kept in her head.

I believe that the Andre Norton site, has the Witch World themes divided. You should try there. Andre-Norton-Books.com
I also remember "Dragon Scale Silver" and FLIGHT OF VENGEANCE come to mind as items containing Falconers.

I'm fighting a headache right now, else I would thumb through the 160 or so titles on the shelf next to my computer.

Is there something that you are looking for? Have a question that the "site mind" can help you answer?
Irene
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#3
(October 21st, 2019, 09:59 PM)Jack123456 Wrote: I have been recently reading Andre Norton's books. So there are some notes I want to share.

Ware' Hawk tells of Falconer warrior. They seem to have a telepathic bond with their Falcons. While they do no use magic or spells they do seem to have some power. The Falcon and Falconer join their willpower to the main character who has some small talent to fight with power. 

A short story called Falcon Blood explains why Falconers hate and fear women and how a Falconer overcome his prejudice and bias against women.

Trey of swords comes first then Gate of the Cat then finally book Ware' Hawk it the last.

Curious: Why do you say The Gate of the Cat comes before 'Ware Hawk? She wrote The Gate of the Cat after 'Ware Hawk so I always assumed you read them in the published order. I'll have to re-read them both now...
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#4
I said the Gate of the Cat came first before Ware' Hawk because in the Cat Gate Simon is in Escore and has conversations with the main female character. In Ware Hawk Simon and his witch wife are now back in Estcarp ruling with Koris of Gorm and a generation has passed the the mountains walked and fell on the army of their ememy the Karstein.
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#5
Based on my own notes Witch World Books, I would say that Irene's summation of other sources agrees with my own. Of course, I wrote those notes over 20 years ago and I don't have them with me. But Trey of Swords kicked off the pseudo-trilogy, followed by Ware Hawk, and closing with The Gate of the Cat.

That said, the books were not always published in chronological order. In my notes (which could be wrong - I don't have the books to check, either), Ware Hawk is set before Trey of Swords (scroll down to the bottom of the page). Horn Crown was published in 1981 but it takes place in a time far preceding Witch World and its sequels and chronological spinoffs.

Some of the short stories were also set in older times, although their dating was suspect.

There is a typo in my "Approximate Chronological Order" list. Spell of the Witch World is included twice, and I don't see Witch World at all. I have no idea of how long that list has been in error. I should try to fix it some day.

I'm not sure how much help it will be but in 2007 Indagare started this discussion about the correct order of the year names. I think Jay included all that in his Andre Norton Books site but I'm too busy to check right now.
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#6
Trey of Swords takes place at same time as Warlock of Witch World. Kemoc is swept away in rush of water (water spell) in Trey of Swords near the begins of it before the main character story has really begun.


In Gate of the Cat the Sorceress of Witch World has ended before Cat Gate story has begun. Simon speaks in English to the main character at the begin of her story. And the main character from Trey of Swords acts as a experienced veteran scout for the Cat Gate girl and her witch companion.

Imagined my confusion and surprise when the last page of Sorceress of Witch World says the war is over and only a mop up operation remains. And then more Witch World books keep coming out afterwards. Of course I was pleased to read more of Andre Norton Witch World books.
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#7
The Witch World's history was always kind of a moving target. I'd say Andre was more interested in telling stories than in constructing history.
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#8
For Andre the story was "all". 

It might have been better for us readers, trying to create a time line, if no two books had any of the same characters. 

One world, a million people, why would any of them ever meet?  

I will repeat my often expressed opinion that looks like the reverse of a white board, Things before the character are just sketchy outlines, as the character gets closer, the lines are more defined, and as they come to, and pass a region, the colors are drawn in.
Irene
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#9
Quote:Irene wrote:

Note: Jay - is there a top level link to the Time Line?


That is the top level link for the Witch World timeline.

There is also a page called "Suggested Reading Order of Witch World" with three groups of titles.

"Publication Order" = as written by Andre Norton
"Suggested Reading Order" = stories by Andre only
"Expanded Reading Order" = Includes stories written by other authors
"Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted"
Andre Norton's website - Andre-Norton-Books.com
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#10
OK, but reading order isn't the same as timeline-order. We can continue this off-of-the-Forum
Irene
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#11
Yep - That's why they have different pages. Because they aint the same.
"Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted"
Andre Norton's website - Andre-Norton-Books.com
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#12
Quote:Irene wrote:

Note: Jay - is there a top level link to the Time Line?


Sorry - misunderstood the question. The top level for that timeline is   The Witch World/The Sorcerer's Conspectus

The Sorcerer's Conspectus is a duplicate of all that work at Wikidots by Indagare and Metaldragon posted on the website for the convenience of Andre fans.
"Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted"
Andre Norton's website - Andre-Norton-Books.com
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#13
Falcon Blood a short story can be found in Lore of Witch World a collection of great short Witch World stories. A few of short stories are Spider Silk, Sand Sister, Falcon Blood, ect. these short stories are written by Andre Norton herself. Originally these short stories were published in a books where a bunch of famous and popular authors got together and each wrote their own short story. Usual Andre Norton chose to write a Witch World short story.  Later these short stories were put together in Lore of Witch World.

Sand Sister (short story) I consider to be the final installment of Witch World. The reason I say this is because In Three Against Witch World, Trey of Swords and Ware' Hawk among others first start in Estcarp and in none of them is there any mention that Koris of Gorm and his wife having any children. In Sand Sister we are finally introduced to their grown male child. The story takes place in Tor marshes it is about a Tor girl and she rescues their child by using her sand powers that her Sand Sister has given her spells and old knowledge of Sand powers. They escape together from Tor and seem to have possible love interest at least from the girl's point of view.

I also I want to note a disappointing news that libraries in Los Angeles area have thrown out as trash all of Andre Norton's old books. One librarian who retired about 5 years ago told me that no one was reading her books. She  knew of Norton's books and said she had read them as a kid. Basically what happens is the libraries are remodeled or thrown down when they reopen all the many Norton books  are all gone. A tragedy!
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#14
Many libraries have removed, from circulation, the books by Andre Norton. That is how X-Library books are created.
So you need to be vigilant and look for the Library book sales. This is because most librarians can't put a book into the TRASH - they sell them.

As for stories being the end of the timeline. Well 'Sand Sister' was originally published in 1979 and WARDING OF THE WITH WORLD in 1996.

That there is no mention of children born to Koris of Gorm, does not mean that there were no children. It just means that if they exist, they are off stage.... And if I was going to war, I would leave my children home if they were safe there.
I'm going to go with the collected time line
http://andre-norton-books.com/the-witch-...-the-years
And there is still years to go before the story is ended.

And surely, had she lived, Andre would have continued to have stories live in her mind - even if she didn't have the strength to write them herself.
Irene
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#15
While Wizards' World is not a Witch world book it contains my favorite long short story. Most of the short stories stories in Wizards' World are not good. The short story by the same title is as great as possible. I love it!


I also do not like the short stories in Spell of Witch World. But I love the short stories in Lore of Witch World.

I do not enjoy the Witch World short stories written late in the life of Andre Norton (they were really written by other authors). I am a fussy and picky with whose books I read. I tried to read a few of the Tales of Witch World and was bored.

In Three Against Witch World after their parents disappeared the children were cared for by Koris of Gorm's wife and a servant woman. There were no child of Koris then.
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#16
I don't know.... Perhaps no children of Koris and Loyse [Briant] were not mentioned because they were still in the nursery or unborn.
Because some cultures don't mention children until they become mobile and are thought to have passed that age when babies die.
Or children born to Koris and Loyse might have been born after the teenagers left the nest. Ten years of age, being no difference in Andre Norton's world.

Or most likely, they weren't mentioned because Andre Norton hadn't needed them to exist.
Irene
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#17
If we're talking just the Falconers here:

1) First appeared and described in Witch World (1963). In that story they were run out of their home country by barbarians a little over a century ago. They did not telepathically communicate with their falcons, but they did have tiny, complicated devices attached to the legs of their birds. Also they had no issue giving out their names to strangers.

2) The next major bit of lore about them is in 'Falcon Blood' as part of the Lore of the Witch World anthology (1980). This is the story that introduces Jonkara as the reason they fled their home of Salzarat. The Falconer Rivery and Sulcar Tanree visit it and end the threat of Jonkara forever. This story is set sometime after the Turning.

3) 'Ware Hawk (1983) introduces Tirtha of the Old Race and Nirel of the Falconers. This story takes place in spring of the third year since the Turning. Simon and Jaelithe have joined Koris (and presumably Loyse) in the ruling of Estcarp. This is the story that also introduces Alon who will appear again in Songsmith (1992). It also brings in Crytha, Yonan, and Uruk who we last saw in Trey of Swords (published 1977 but chronologically in-story about three years ago in the fall of the year of the Turning except the weird time junk). The Gate of the Cat (which also involves Yonan) is published in 1987. Only Simon is still in Escore without Jaelithe which is very odd indeed (though maybe less so since the witches are there). Being a man of action, and not hurt like Koris was, presumably Simon wanted to help out more actively and maybe spend more time with his kids.

4) 'To Rebuild the Eyrie' in Tales of the Witch World 1 (1987) is set sometime after the Turning. How long it is after is unclear. Eirran is 18 and Yareth (Falconer) is 20. This becomes important later, since their daughter Jenys/Mouse is taken to be a Witch in 'Falcon Magic' (published in the On Wings of Magic anthology in 1994) when she's almost 7. The events of 'Falcon Magic' proceed those of Magestone (1996) by about a year in-story. 'Oath Bound', involving the Falconer Tronel, also is in this volume and is also set sometime after the Turning.

5) 'Falcon Law' in Four from the Witch World (1989) takes place after the Turning and directly references 'Falcon Blood'. This story establishes that there's a secret Eyrie rebuilt in the mountains, but it doesn't make a lot of sense given what happened in 'To Rebuild the Eyrie' and later books also contradict it. 'Falcon's Chick' is set both before and after the Turning (in fact, almost eight years pass since the Turning). It was published in the Tales of the Witch World 3 anthology (1990). It focuses on a woman's village left behind. It is followed by 'We, the Women' in On Wings of Magic.

6) 'Seakeep' in the Storms of Victory (1991) anthology which brings us Una of Seakeep in High Hallack and Tarlach of the Falconers. This firmly establishes the idea of the mind-bond with the falcons. 'Falcon Hope' is in Flight of Vengeance (1992) and takes place eight years since the Turning and after 'Seakeep'. It's a bit unclear how long after 'Seakeep' since that novel more or less ends in early fall and 'Falcon Hope' begins in winter, so they could easily take place in the same year. By the end of 'Seakeep' it would be in the late winter or early spring of the ninth year since the Turning and a new Eyrie is established.

That's all I can think of off hand.
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#18
Horn Crown is written out of order. It is about when Dale people first came through a gate from their world fleeing something that they forgot when they arrived in witch world.

I liked when the male character met Moon Goddess by tracing a symbol in large dinner table he was swept into the past and saw dinners. The Moon Lady gave him one of her amber wristlet armband. Prior to this he met a tree spirit lady who gave him a green leaf from her skirt. I think he lusted for both these ladies. 

I was disappointed that there was no power struggle or battle in the book. Just a verbal confrontation by the Lords & Ladies of Power evenly balanced. The Dark adepts gave in angrily to Light without a fight.
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