Who had seen any simaril at the end of age III?
#1
Hi all!

I wonder which of the persons who were in middle earth at the end of the III. age had seen any silmaril with his/her own eyes? For example Galadriel most likely had seen them at leat in the west before she came to Beleriand, also she might have seen the one Beren brought to Doriath.

Who else might have seen them? (Lets not count seeing evening star for this question) Elrond or any of his childs? Cirdan or Celebrimbor?

Cheers
 P.
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#2
Galadriel is a pretty safe bet to have seen them prior to Morgoth’s theft, as is Gandalf (Olorin). Depending on which Celeborn origin story you believe, he might have seen the one Beren recovered in Doriath. Elrond probably saw the same Stone via his mother, and might possibly have seen the other two before their theft by Maedhros and Maglor.

You mention Celebrimbor, but he of course died in the Second Age.

Offhand, I can’t think of any other likely candidates. Maybe Cirdan, but I don’t recall if Elwing ever lived in his lands.
Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

I don't have any humble opinions.
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#3
What about Elrond?  His mother, Elwing, possessed the Silmaril for a time.
If some Disney-princess can do it, why not Sauron?
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#4
I mentioned Elrond as a probable via Elwing and a possible for the other two after they were taken from Morgoth but before Maedhros and Maglor stole them
Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

I don't have any humble opinions.
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#5
Saruman and the other Istari probably also saw them prior to Morgoth’s theft
Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

I don't have any humble opinions.
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#6
Glorfindel and Gildor are also possibles
Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

I don't have any humble opinions.
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#7
3 off-the-wall possibilities I'll throw out:

Fred * almost certainly saw the Silmarils on his dark master's iron crown.

The Ents fought and eradicated the Dwarves who had attacked and sacked Doriath and then returning survived and escaped the Elves' ambush at Sarn Athrad. Beren had already slain the Lord of Nogrod and taken the Nauglamir with the Silmaril before the remaining Dwarves encountered the Ents. Nonetheless since apparently Beren and Luthien and the Green-Elves had some understanding and friendship with the Ents, perhaps Treebeard visiting saw Luthien wearing the Nauglamir with the Silmaril afterwards while she lived.

Maglor threw his Silmaril into the Sea and it is said wandered the shore forlorn singing sadly of his pain and regret. Quite possibly he was still around, though probably partly Faded, and maybe anyone who approached lonely shores of Belegaer and the Sundering Seas might catch Maglor's heartbroken elegies at the edge of hearing over the breaking surf.

Here's a 4th one: Sauron himself! *

(For that matter Saruman * and the rest of the Istari might have seen them in Valinor, Saruman particularly being of the people of Aulë and so perhaps able to wangle a look at Fëanor's masterpieces while he was still willing to show them.) (Oops, Bacchus already covered this!) Wink

* These personages were no longer corporeal and embodied by the very end of the 3rd Age, but I had read the question as referring to the last years of the 3rd Age rather than strictly up to the final day.
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For I was talking aloud to myself...the old...choose the wisest person present to speak to...
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#8
Really any of the Noldor (not born in Middle-earth) who remained in Middle-earth by the Third Age had probably seen the Silmarils before they were stolen; Feanor wore them on high occasions in Valinor.

Likewise any of the survivors of the sack of Doriath probably saw a Silmaril, after Dior inherited the Nauglamir from Luthien upon her passing.  In the same vein, any survivor of the fall of Gondolin who made it to the Mouths of Sirion encampment saw Elwing with the Jewel around her neck.  If they survived the Third Kinslaying and remained in Middle-earth after the War of Wrath then they make the list.

All surviving Balrogs make the list, not just Fred, if we assume they were at some point in the presence of Morgoth while he was wearing them on his crown.  Which seems a safe assumption, IMO.

Likewise, any dragon who survived the War of Wrath likely had seen Morgoth in person, and therefore the Jewels in his crown.  But perhaps they do not count as persons.

Lastly, I'll mention Mordomin.  He would be covered in my opening paragraph, except for the fact that he's a fan-fiction character.  But since one of his stories places him at the Third Kinslaying and in the presence of the Silmaril, I'll include him.  Cool

Update:  I included that last bit just for fun, and to fatten up my list, LOL.  But now something's bugging me:  what would have happened if Mordomin touched the Silmaril with his black hand?   Huh
If some Disney-princess can do it, why not Sauron?
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#9
Among the Elves, I more or less agree with your list, Elenmir. The trick, of course, is finding named characters that fit those categories. 😀

Your Balrog logic is likewise solid. It is implied but not directly stated that more than one Balrog managed to escape the WoW, and as minor Maiar it seems logical that they would have been high ranking enough to have direct contact with Morgoth.

I think the dragon logic is a little shakier. It just feels unliklier to me that all of the dragons would necessarily have had direct contact with Morgoth. Glaurung, certainly, but the others feel more doubtful to me.

Cirdan is a reasonably strong candidate. He was strongly allied with Earendil, and it’s easy to imagine him being involved in pre-theft discussions with Eonwe as well.
Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

I don't have any humble opinions.
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#10
Here’s a possibility that is admittedly a stretch...Aragorn.

Gandalf speaks wistfully of the possibility of using the Palantir to see Feanor at work. Thus it’s plausible that Aragorn could have done so and, while not having been in the physical presence of a Silmaril, seen one or more of them via the Palantir.
Always after a defeat and a respite, the Shadow takes another shape and grows again.

I don't have any humble opinions.
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#11
(October 26th, 2019, 08:39 AM)Bacchus Wrote: Here’s a possibility that is admittedly a stretch...Aragorn.

Gandalf speaks wistfully of the possibility of using the Palantir to see Feanor at work. Thus it’s plausible that Aragorn could have done so and, while not having been in the physical presence of a Silmaril, seen one or more of them via the Palantir.
Clever!  And how about Pippen?  If Feanor did make the Palantiri, and one was being used by as unskilled a mind as Pippen, perhaps the 'default' view was of its maker at work.
"Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'." - Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion
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#12
(October 27th, 2019, 02:47 PM)Mordomin Wrote: Clever!  And how about Pippen?  If Feanor did make the Palantiri, and one was being used by as unskilled a mind as Pippen, perhaps the 'default' view was of its maker at work.
No. The default view was mentioned to be in the direction of view, in present.
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