Witch World Wonderings
#1
As folks here know from before I've been rather obsessively working on a Witch World Timeline. Now I'm wondering if there would be any way to contact Andre Norton's estate and see about getting it published to become official. This is just hubris - it's unlikely the estate would reopen Witch World to the public - but I'd really appreciate folks opinions.

I've also had some fanfic thoughts which (of course) would conflict with other stories, but I'm not sure how well any such thing might be received.
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#2
Give your post a couple of days for others to see it.. . Members of the estate come here to read.

Sadly, I believe that fan fiction, fanfic, is to be discouraged. The only exception is if the estate is thinking of another Witch World Anthology. This, if it were to exist, would be juried, edited, and official.

The Andre Norton Forum, though NOT for fan fiction (that is another forum), would allow you to discuss "what if's" with other Andre Norton Fans.
Irene
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#3
Irene Wrote:Give your post a couple of days for others to see it.. . Members of the estate come here to read.

Sadly, I believe that fan fiction, fanfic, is to be discouraged. The only exception is if the estate is thinking of another Witch World Anthology. This, if it were to exist, would be juried, edited, and official.

The Andre Norton Forum, though NOT for fan fiction (that is another forum), would allow you to discuss "what if's" with other Andre Norton Fans.

I'm not in that big of a hurry. I wasn't sure it was even a feasible idea or not since so many folks here helped me develop it. It's just this is my favorite series from her, and the one I felt the most welcomed in with, so I'd love to add more lore. I'd also like there to be an official timeline out there so if the series ever is reopened future authors have something to go by.

I had a feeling that would be the case. I'm actually surprised they haven't made the Gryphon trilogy into an omnibus yet. I might go to the fanfic forum should I ever get a story where I feel like I'd be okay with others reading it. That said, I'll post a couple "what ifs" or similar here in different threads.
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#4
Correct if I'm wrong, but aren't the rights still a little twisty? Some of the early stuff moved into the public domain and all, but I forget how everything else was resolved. Not that I want to raise the ghosts of past disputes.
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#5
I believe that the several people who are the "estate" have worked out 'who-does-what'.

Some of the very early stuff did move into the public domain. Some more of the early stuff got collected into omnibus - hence extending copy-rights.

The only venue for NEW stories by fans would be if there were to be another TALES OF THE WITCH WORLD. These were mostly invited authors, and always included an Andre Norton short story. I think another anthology is unlikely.

I believe that fan fiction, in Ms. Norton's worlds, is still discouraged.
Irene
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#6
This is only my opinion so it doesn't mount to much.

But out of 327 titles I don't think 11 novels and 3 short stories constitutes a lot of her earlier stuff.

The Defiant Agents, Key Out of Time, Plague Ship, Ralestone Luck, Rebel Spurs, Ride Proud, Rebel!, Star Born, Star Hunter, Storm Over Warlock, The Time Traders, & Voodoo Planet
All Cats are Gray, People of the Crater, The Gifts of Asti

There is a plan in the works to get back control of these 14 titles.


The only people I know that are the "Estate" of Andre Norton are Sue and Ollie Stewart.

Currently Witch World is in limbo as the Estate and Hollywood work out the movie details.

Fan fiction is not discouraged it just has to be good. Have not seen any "Good" attempts in a while.

Michael,
The rights to all existing works belong to the Stewart's. The rights to anything "New" by Andre go to Victor Horadam. (unpublished or found stuff tends to get donated by both parties to the Andre Norton website. Not everything that has been submitted to the website has made it online though.)
"Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted"
Andre Norton's website - Andre-Norton-Books.com
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#7
Irene Wrote:I believe that the several people who are the "estate" have worked out 'who-does-what'.

A lot of the very early stuff did move into the public domain. Some more of the early stuff got collected into omnibus - hence extending copy-rights.

The only venue for NEW stories by fans would be if there were to be another TALES OF THE WITCH WORLD. These were mostly invited authors, and always included an Andre Norton short story. I think another anthology is unlikely.

I believe that fan fiction, in Ms. Norton's worlds, is still discouraged.

Four From the Witch World is a compilation that did not include an Andre Norton story, so there would be a precedent for it should they so choose. It could be made 'in memory of'.

Well, I figured fanfic would be - it usually is. That doesn't stop me from having ideas, though.
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#8
Hey, Irene, I'll leave it to you but it might be helpful to create a sticky thread in this forum that explains who owns what, etc. We could update it from time to time with new announcements (like movie deals).
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#9
If I understand correctly, what Indagare is proposing is a book about (i.e. discussing) the timeline in Witch World. So the question becomes, does the estate have rights over a book about Andre's work? It would be similar to a book about Tolkien's work. Do books about his works have to be approved by the Tolkien Estate?

I know J.K. Rowling sued a fan who had published an encyclopedia of the Harry Potter world, theoretically because she planned to do one. She won her case. Obviously Andre will not be publishing a book about the chronology of Witch World, so does Indagare need permission? On the other hand, the estate may be interested in helping to get the book published.

Mike
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#10
Taliesin Wrote:If I understand correctly, what Indagare is proposing is a book about (i.e. discussing) the timeline in Witch World. So the question becomes, does the estate have rights over a book about Andre's work? It would be similar to a book about Tolkien's work. Do books about his works have to be approved by the Tolkien Estate?

I know J.K. Rowling sued a fan who had published an encyclopedia of the Harry Potter world, theoretically because she planned to do one. She won her case. Obviously Andre will not be publishing a book about the chronology of Witch World, so does Indagare need permission? On the other hand, the estate may be interested in helping to get the book published.

Mike

Yes. This is it exactly. It's actually very interesting how the timeline works out, and there's multiple books to cite. I'm just not sure how to delicately handle comparative analysis where early editions are contradicted by later ones.
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#11
The Tolkien Estate successfully shut down a similar book project some years ago. The author was going to annotate the historical timeline in Tolkien's fiction. So, hypothetically, the Andre Norton Estate could do something similar, if so disposed.
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#12
I believe that both parts of the estate; Stewarts & Horadam, would have to be consulted if any parts of this time line are to be published in print or ebook form.
Also note: A similar compendium was submitted to NESFA press several (okay several, several) years ago, and was rejected for not being complete.
My own "second edition" of the Bibliography was printed by NESFA press.

So the steps in getting a time line, or 50-100 pages printed as paper or ebook would be
1) Get permission of both parts of the estate
2) Find a publisher

Since there is currently a question of time line for two of the novellas - that should be corrected first.

However,
If you are mostly looking for a place to post your time line: no royalties, no book just working with folks - contact Lots-A-Watts (click on the name line) separately.


___________________

Separate issue: Creating a pinned Thread: Status of future publishing as per the estate:
I cannot post such a thread. I don't know how the estate actually stands: Jay seems to have some recent contact.
I had been in contact with both sides of the estate, and do NOT wish to have any more of that type of "discussion" on this site ever again.
Irene
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#13
Irene Wrote:I believe that both parts of the estate; Stewarts & Horadam, would have to be consulted if any parts of this time line are to be published in print or ebook form.
Also note: A similar compendium was submitted to NESFA press several (okay several, several) years ago, and was rejected for not being complete.
My own "second edition" of the Bibliography was printed by NESFA press.

So the steps in getting a time line, or 50-100 pages printed as paper or ebook would be
1) Get permission of both parts of the estate
2) Find a publisher

Since there is currently a question of time line for two of the novellas - that should be corrected first.

However,
If you are mostly looking for a place to post your time line: no royalties, no book just working with folks - contact Lots-A-Watts (click on the name line) separately.


___________________

Separate issue: Creating a pinned Thread: Status of future publishing as per the estate:
I cannot post such a thread. I don't know how the estate actually stands: Jay seems to have some recent contact.
I had been in contact with both sides of the estate, and do NOT wish to have any more of that type of "discussion" on this site ever again.

I can easily site all the books and even page numbers where various years and events are mentioned. More of an issue begins with Gryphon in Glory (and a weird age flub in Gryphon's Eyrie) and continues in Songsmith, The Magestone, The Warding of the Witch World, and in Ciara's Song (which is very badly off kilter). There's also some issues with some of the short stories in the various anthologies. I don't know how GURPS counts here, but the timeline it presents is wrong and I could probably do a book just on how badly that timeline is done.

I'll talk more with Lots-a-Watts, but Elwher has a website too where I've been working on the timeline and other things.


I apologize if I've brought up other issues.
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#14
No need to apologize. We love friendly discussion here! :lol:
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#15
OK - Time for my useless input.

Since it is about Andre's work - I do not believe any permissions are needed. Both parties that control anything are only interested in actual works by Andre. Neither party showed the least bit interest in "Star Man's Saga" by Ralph F. Couey, they referred him to me for posting on the site. Nor were they interested in several stories that were about Andre, or even had Andre's input such as the Gaia's Island trilogy. The later was shelved after the Estate's agent and I gave the author our input.

If you really want to see it in print, self publish, these days it is very easy and many sites even Amazon will guide you through the process.

If you feel the need to converse with Estate people go right ahead. Both entities are open for discussions. Just do not mention one to the other. If you do, that will be the end of said discussion. (If I can navigate said mine field, you can definitely manage it.)

As for a Timeline - I have four posted on the site.
There is a huge piece of work done by Maureen S. O'Brien that covers the whole "Multi-verse" of Andre's work.
~~ a timeline of the Forerunner's universe by Geert Cuypers. Tying many books together that at first don't seem to have much to do with each other.
~~ Inconsistencies within the Witch World Timeline, by Jack ~ a very dedicated fan ~ A collection of questions covering the differences between Year of the Unicorn & The Jargoon Pard vs: The Warding of Witch World by Andre Norton. With some answers from Jay Demetrick and other fans.
and last but not least A Timeline by Jay Demetrick ~ The timeline as A Master Sorcerer sees it. Originally from jade-dragon.wikidot.com last updated on my site 2 years ago ~ "There are also a whole set of timelines within the "Witch World Saga" done by Jay Demetrick which can be found at this wikidot site" (as addressed at my site.)

I would be rather thrilled to have all your work on the site, we would just have to discuss the format and order. As you may have noticed I give all credits to any and all parties. I just "Archive" everything in one place for ease of access to researchers and fans. (some how I get a lot of daily traffic these days - average 170 unique visitors a day, with a whole lot of return visitors) As for inconsistencies, just write them up the way you do. I've read a lot of your work and you're rather good at it.

When it comes to the actions by the likes of The Tolkien Estate or J.K. Rowling I have no doubts, just look at the type of people they are. (no further comments needed) If you are seriously concerned about dealing with the Estate I can help with navigating that mine field. (I have become rather good at it over the past decade.)

Irene, If you would like I'll be glad to talk to both parties and get a better definition as to who owns what.
"Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted"
Andre Norton's website - Andre-Norton-Books.com
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#16
Lots-A-Watts Wrote:OK - Time for my useless input.

Since it is about Andre's work - I do not believe any permissions are needed. Both parties that control anything are only interested in actual works by Andre. Neither party showed the least bit interest in "Star Man's Saga" by Ralph F. Couey, they referred him to me for posting on the site. Nor were they interested in several stories that were about Andre, or even had Andre's input such as the Gaia's Island trilogy. The later was shelved after the Estate's agent and I gave the author our input.

If you really want to see it in print, self publish, these days it is very easy and many sites even Amazon will guide you through the process.

If you feel the need to converse with Estate people go right ahead. Both entities are open for discussions. Just do not mention one to the other. If you do, that will be the end of said discussion. (If I can navigate said mine field, you can definitely manage it.)

As for a Timeline - I have four posted on the site.
There is a huge piece of work done by Maureen S. O'Brien that covers the whole "Multi-verse" of Andre's work.
~~ a timeline of the Forerunner's universe by Geert Cuypers. Tying many books together that at first don't seem to have much to do with each other.
~~ Inconsistencies within the Witch World Timeline, by Jack ~ a very dedicated fan ~ A collection of questions covering the differences between Year of the Unicorn & The Jargoon Pard vs: The Warding of Witch World by Andre Norton. With some answers from Jay Demetrick and other fans.
and last but not least A Timeline by Jay Demetrick ~ The timeline as A Master Sorcerer sees it. Originally from jade-dragon.wikidot.com last updated on my site 2 years ago ~ "There are also a whole set of timelines within the "Witch World Saga" done by Jay Demetrick which can be found at this wikidot site" (as addressed at my site.)

I would be rather thrilled to have all your work on the site, we would just have to discuss the format and order. As you may have noticed I give all credits to any and all parties. I just "Archive" everything in one place for ease of access to researchers and fans. (some how I get a lot of daily traffic these days - average 170 unique visitors a day, with a whole lot of return visitors) As for inconsistencies, just write them up the way you do. I've read a lot of your work and you're rather good at it.

When it comes to the actions by the likes of The Tolkien Estate or J.K. Rowling I have no doubts, just look at the type of people they are. (no further comments needed) If you are seriously concerned about dealing with the Estate I can help with navigating that mine field. (I have become rather good at it over the past decade.)

Irene, If you would like I'll be glad to talk to both parties and get a better definition as to who owns what.

I very much value your input! I'll see what I can do to organize it all and go from there.

I'd love to be added to your site and work out the details of it with you! I'd like to give credit also to Elwher, Metaldragon, and everyone here for helping me when I made that thread a while back, if possible. I really couldn't have done it without this help and feedback.
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#17
Jay - I thank you.

I'll think about that pinned-Thread re the "who owns what".
- Michael & Jay - we can discuss off forum.
Irene
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#18
Indagare

I have tried to send you several e-mails through here. I can't tell if they are going through. Please email me back so I get the right contact info.
"Not everything that can be counted counts and not everything that counts can be counted"
Andre Norton's website - Andre-Norton-Books.com
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#19
Lots-A-Watts Wrote:Indagare

I have tried to send you several e-mails through here. I can't tell if they are going through. Please email me back so I get the right contact info.

I only just got one email today in my regular email - nothing's appeared here for me at all. I just figured you were busy. Let me know here if you got my return email. If worse comes to worse we can communicate through the forum.
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#20
It's possible I messed up something when I was trying to fiddle with the server's email system a while back. It kept rejecting emails sent to a long-established address. I may have to reset everything and start over from scratch but I'm in the middle of a couple of big projects.

Sorry, everyone.
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