Star Trek - Yes, It Sucked . . . No, It Didn't!
#81
Jammin Wrote:Just an aside - he was definitely still Captain, not Admiral, Kirk in Generations.
Right. He had retired, apparently, but eventually returned to Starfleet. Remember the scene in the Nexus where Kirk is taking breakfast up to a room and he says something like "this is the day I tell (whomever) that I'm going back to Starfleet" or something like that.

Quote:As for the Spock & Urhura debate, I don't have an issue with the relationship, but I do have an issue with the way it was played out in public. The kissing on the transporter pad was really out of place and completely unprofessional and, as such, was rather jarring. I know it was done purely to get the payoff over her first name, but i think they could have done that in a more dignified manner.

Exactly. Both of them would get into serious trouble for a display like that. Again, it's also unlike the Spock we know. You could say Uhura was the one that initiated the kiss, or whatever, but it's irrelevant. It's just another example of how the screenwriters are incapable of dealing in subtlety in any way.

I have to beg everyone's pardon for beating this horse to death, but it's just such a bad film. A few months on now, the only positive thing that I can think of for this film are Leonard Nimoy as Spock and Karl Urban's uncanny portrayal of McCoy. The rest is just bad, and I don't mean Final Frontier or Nemesis or The Motion Picture bad, just a terrible movie. Like many summer blockbusters, the real art is in the studio's marketing and management of hype. That's what sells tickets to big franchise movies now, not the film itself.
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#82
You are right Boomer, Kirk did say to Picard that 'this is the day I tell Antonio or what ever her name was, that he was going back to StarFleet but let's not forget, the Nexus for Kirk was putting him back in time and each time he did something, from room to room that is, it was going further back for him...such as when he was suppose to go into the bedroom and it was a barn and that ended up being the day he first met Antonio(or whatever her name was), so for Kirk things kept going backwards, like his dog showing up when it was suppose to have been dead for 7 years or something like that(in THAT time line for Kirk that is), and those reading glasses Bones gave him? These were things very much in the past for Kirk-
Him telling her he was going back to Starfleet could mean anything- much like alot of things we have been discussing here, we really dont know just how many times Kirk retired or tried to.

We only saw him get promoted ONE time to Admiral and then we didnt really even SEE it happen, we just find out he's an Admiral in the third film(and they "steal" the Enterprise to go looking for Spock, then 'steals' a Bird of Pray from the Klingons after they killed his son whom he had with a woman named Carol, not Antonio) and then gets demoted to Captain in the 4th film(after going back in time in said Bird of Pray to get whales to save the earth, yet again)he gets demoted for insabordination(disobeying direct orders from Starfleet command)the only charge they actually make stick after dismissing all of the others-which is what he really wanted anyways... and, who the heck is Antonio? This is a woman I had never heard of as being a part of his life until Generations.

And without causing a huge argument yet again, so please dont all jump down my throat, but I do not believe Kirk was still a Captain in Generations. Yes he was retired, finally...and, I believe I recall them saying he was now teaching at the Academy-but if I'm not mistaken, dont you have to be an Admiral to teach? I do believe I recall the new Enterprise Captain calling Kirk Captain one time but I am not 100 percent sure...for as many times as I have seen that film- somethings could still be aluding me but those lines...the ones Kirk said to Picard- each time I see the film I say them, word for word- they had such a powerful meaning.
For all the struggles Kirk went thru getting promoted, loosing command, being demoted getting command back and then finally having to retire- the last thing he ever really wanted to do.
Something it would seem he was clearly still unhappy about- which is why he told Picard what did-"dont let them promote you, dont let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship..."

And trying not to keep beating the whole Spock/Uhura thing to death, I do agree with Jammin', the point I was trying to make all along, but got all mixed up with is the fact that I too dont really have a problem with the relationship at all-what I have and have had a problem with is how they played it out.
My other issue is the fact that she initiated the kissing but as Boomer said, it's probably irrelavant to the whole situation who 'started' it...
And yes, it's also VERY unlike the Spock we know- but again, the Spock we know from TOS or whatever, isnt necessarily going to be THIS Spock merely because of the shift in time that occured in this film. Not to mention the fact that in this 'time', Spock witnesses his mother's death and Vulcan or not, emotionless or not, alien or not, that kind of thing can affect anyone-and it was clear that it affected THIS Spock....soooo what may be unlikly for the Spock we 'knew' and loved, it's necessarily going to be what THIS Spock does but regardless- the whole concept of the kissing c**p, was irrelavant, out of context and totally unprofessional.
Why the producers threw it in there is probably also irrelavant at this point- even if it was to further anger those that were already upset about the film to begin with, those skeptics as it were- whatever the reasons it was put into the film- the complete and utter unprofessionalism of the act shouldnt have been played out like that.
They could have found another way to make that little joke about finding out her first name without going where they did.
In the turbolift- well, they were alone and it was a more private situation but still- private or not, it was also unprofessional and unlike Spock to just lower his guard to a junior officer merely because she initiated a make-out session- he should have stopped it, they should have made him stop it right then and there but- they didnt and it dragged out into another scene.

I can understand your frustration Boomer, about saying it was the worse trek film ever- however as I have said before, I dont agree one bit. It was not the worse, least not for me. Overall, it was well done, well played out and it DID have a moderate plot line. The unprofessional inter-crew relationship is what irks me to death still at this point, but if they had tried to explain it further or explore it further or give us even a tiny explaination of how it came about, I probably still wouldnt have liked seeing it anyways because it simply makes no sense. Even if I say I dont have a problem with it, the way they played it, just made no sense.
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#83
LadyG7284 Wrote:We only saw him get promoted ONE time to Admiral and then we didnt really even SEE it happen, we just find out he's an Admiral in the third film...
his son whom he had with a woman named Carol...
...who the heck is Antonio? This is a woman I had never heard of as being a part of his life until Generations.

Just to clear a few things up--
Kirk is promoted to Admiral sometime before the events of the first film (Star Trek: The Motion Picture). He's called "Admiral Kirk" throughout the film. As you note, he's busted down to Captain for insubordination at the end of Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.

Like his promotion to Admiral, his relationship with Carol Marcus and the birth of his son David presumably happens in between the television series and the films. As far as I know, Carol and/or David are never mentioned in the television series.

IMDb credits William Shatner's role in Star Trek: Generations as "Captain James T. Kirk, retired." I don't have a copy of the film on hand to verify the credit, and, as you say, the Enterprise B Captain calls Kirk by that rank.

I don't think that one had to be an Admiral to teach at Starfleet Academy. IIRC there's several instances in the various tv shows, mostly TNG, where Academy faculty are shown or spoken of, and they aren't all Admirals.

As to this "Antonia," I believe we're simply meant to draw the conclusion that she's a wife/spouse/companion of Kirk's that he meets after his initial retirement, sometime following the events after The Undiscovered Country.

Quote:I can understand your frustration Boomer, about saying it was the worse trek film ever- however as I have said before, I dont agree one bit. It was not the worse, least not for me. Overall, it was well done, well played out and it DID have a moderate plot line.

Like I've said a few times, it's not really that big of a deal to me. I'll argue about it, but in the end, whatever. I don't like the film. If other Star Trek fans like it, great. I'm at a loss to explain it, but great. I've long said that I enjoy The Motion Picture, The Final Frontier, and Insurrection, entries in the series that many fans sneer at, so clearly it's not the first time I differ in opinion from the collective. Wink
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#84
Boomstick Wrote:IMDb credits William Shatner's role in Star Trek: Generations as "Captain James T. Kirk, retired." I don't have a copy of the film on hand to verify the credit, and, as you say, the Enterprise B Captain calls Kirk by that rank.


Scotty also calls him Captain, and don't forget the tagline to the film - "Two Captains, One Destiny"


Boomstick Wrote:Like I've said a few times, it's not really that big of a deal to me. I'll argue about it, but in the end, whatever. I don't like the film. If other Star Trek fans like it, great. I'm at a loss to explain it, but great. I've long said that I enjoy The Motion Picture, The Final Frontier, and Insurrection, entries in the series that many fans sneer at, so clearly it's not the first time I differ in opinion from the collective. Wink

You can't please all of the people all of the time - it's as simple as that. I enjoy all of the Trek films to varying degrees, although I have to say that my least favourite is the Final Frontier. Having read William Shatner's 'Movie Memories' book (which is an excellent read, by the way) I generally feel a bit angry that it was a film that was cheated out of it's potential by budget constraints and shoddy special effects. Could have been so much better if Shatner had been given more latitude and a few more dollars in the kitty.

Certainly the new Star Trek didn't suffer from a lack of budget, but perhaps did suffer from a heavy handed approach to certain situations, such as the Spock/Urhura kissing scene. Perhaps it was trying to be too much of a summer blockbuster type movie where everything has to be slap bang in the middle of the screen with sirens blazing to make sure the audience gets it. Certainly there must have been a more subtle way to convey that the two of them were having a relationship. Similarly, I still have issues with the Kobayashi Maru scene, and Kirk's arrogance and the obvious nature of the cheating. This is more possibly explained by the timeline change, because Kirk was obviously a very different young man than he would have been in 'normal' timeline, but I just didn't like the way it was handled.

Having said all that, I actually have very few gripes about the film. I thought the acting, especially, was first rate and I suppose you have to give some credit to the director for bringing out those performances and the writers for capturing the spirit of the originals so well, without, for the most part, letting it slip into parody.
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#85
Jammin Wrote:You can't please all of the people all of the time - it's as simple as that. I enjoy all of the Trek films to varying degrees, although I have to say that my least favourite is the Final Frontier. Having read William Shatner's 'Movie Memories' book (which is an excellent read, by the way) I generally feel a bit angry that it was a film that was cheated out of it's potential by budget constraints and shoddy special effects. Could have been so much better if Shatner had been given more latitude and a few more dollars in the kitty.

Thanks for mentioning that book by Shatner, I'll have to find that one, it sounds very interesting. Unfortunately they denied him the funds yet again when he asked to do an updated cut of Final Frontier for the DVD release a few years back.

Quote:Perhaps it was trying to be too much of a summer blockbuster type movie where everything has to be slap bang in the middle of the screen with sirens blazing to make sure the audience gets it.

I think that's a good possibility. The ultimate judgment of this new series will come after the next film. If it's got all the same problems as the first film, I'll feel that my griping was vindicated. If it's better, well, there may be some hope yet. I'm not keeping my fingers crossed, though.
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#86
I went thru my movies, on tape, LOL...and I do stand(actually sitting right now) corrected- Kirk was Admiral in the very first film and remained that way until the 4th movie when he got demoted and loved every second of it.
I even remember Checkov talking to him on the communicator now, when he and Uhura found the air craft carrier "Enterprise"...
Checkov:'and Admiral...it's the Enterprise..."
Kirk:'understood, Kirk out'

So...contrary to what I believe in myself, I'm not perfect! But, I still stand with the fact that we didnt actually SEE him get promoted to that rank now did we?
And yes, it's probably 'safe' to assume that he met Carol Marcus somewhere between TOS and the films and well, a son was produced from it, something Kirk apparantly didnt even know until the second film.
However, the first film takes place 10 years after TOS, exactly 10 years, it was 1969 at the end of the series and 1979 when the first film came out....
Sooooo- when we finally meet the son, David in the second film, the year was 1981 I think, that that film came out, and the son was certainly older than a 10-12 year old, he was a doctor right, just like his mother? He had to be even older than a teenager, my guess is, he was in his early 20's, perhaps even the age of 20 but as I said, he was much older than a 10 year old.
That would mean Kirk would have had to have met Carol during TOS sometime, had an affair with her and pow, has a son he never knew about.
Now- if you want to get technical- I suppose we could "assume", that the first film takes place more than 10 years later...however, as my memory serves me(although it hasnt worked for me yet), I believe they even mention the fact that it's been 10 years that they had a 'real' mission and 'in the saddle' as it were-and if I'm not mistaken again, I believe it was in the first film that Bones gives Kirk those reading glasses as a birthday present!

So again- the affair Kirk has with Marcus had to come during TOS, just something that we simply never saw happen, never heard about happening and knew nothing about.
Much like his relationship with that Antonia woman in Generations...another woman in his life that we never heard of, never knew a thing about, yada yada.
It was clear Kirk was always a lover- heh, and it would seem he had women in his life that were important enough for them to mention in 2 different films, one he even had a son with but apparantly he never actually married any of them, cause I dont recall anything being mentioned about the fact that he got married to anyone but again, it COULD be something we can assume happened, even if we didnt see it happen but I am a bit skeptical about that.

And yes, to each thier own with wheather or not one likes a movie or not. Personally I never believed in films having to have sirens blaring and mega car chases and tons of action sequences for it to be a hit or a great film...I think that perhaps some folks simply expected this film to be MORE, if you will and I guess I can understand that, however for me, it kinda took after TOS and maybe one or two of the other films, but no I dont think it was a blockbuster, mega hit, spectacularly, amazingly done film, but for me, it was really good, and I think that's probably due to the fact that that I didnt expect a ton of action or a ton of simularities to anything before it....I didnt expect alot, I just wanted to see it, I saw it twice and both times it was good for me, cept for the relationship thing which I dont plan to hash on again...
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#87
LadyG7284 Wrote:But, I still stand with the fact that we didnt actually SEE him get promoted to that rank now did we?
Nope, you're right on about that!

Quote:However, the first film takes place 10 years after TOS, exactly 10 years, it was 1969 at the end of the series and 1979 when the first film came out....
Sooooo- when we finally meet the son, David in the second film, the year was 1981 I think, that that film came out, and the son was certainly older than a 10-12 year old, he was a doctor right, just like his mother?

Ah, good catch! I was thinking of this myself when I wrote the earlier post. I plan to watch Wrath of Khan over the weekend if I have time, surely they must explain it, and I thought that Carol Marcus was set up as Kirk's ex-wife, but I could be remembering that wrong, too. I'll report back after I watch the film. I think there's expository exchange between Kirk and McCoy that kind of clears everything up for the viewer.
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#88
Boomstick Wrote:I thought that Carol Marcus was set up as Kirk's ex-wife, but I could be remembering that wrong, too.

I don't remember any mention of the dreaded 'W' word (that's wife by the way :wink: )

The events of the film take place 15 years (or so) after the original TOS episode with Khan. Given David's age, Kirk and Carol Marcus obviously had some sort of relationship before TOS or at least very early on in the 5 year mission. From the film dialogue, however, I don't think it was particularly a long lasting thing. Carol Marcus says to Kirk "Were we together? Were we going to be? You had your life and I had mine" However, I do believe it was an important relationship to Kirk and certainly Bones knows about it. I also think that Kirk is still fairly bitter about the way it ended, given his comment about re-opening "old wounds."

It also appears that Kirk doesn't know he is a father until this point, although somewhat contradicted by him asking Carol "is that David?" after their brief fight. So he obvioulsy knows she has a son - maybe it's only when he meets him face to face he realises that David is his.

LadyG - you're right. As far as I know, Carol Marcus and her relationship with Kirk is something that was created for the film and has no previous references in TOS (I stand to be corrected by those more knowledgable of course!) However, if you knew absolutely everything about the characters, where would the surprise skeletons in the cupboard come from? It's also very much in Kirk's character. We know he has a thing for the ladies, so to speak, so it's reasonable to assume that not only would he make a deeper attachment than he had bargained for in a particular relationship, but that also that accidents can happen. Funny to think that they obviously still have contraception issues in the 23rd century!
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#89
Jammin Wrote:I don't remember any mention of the dreaded 'W' word (that's wife by the way :wink: )

[snip]

However, I do believe it was an important relationship to Kirk and certainly Bones knows about it. I also think that Kirk is still fairly bitter about the way it ended, given his comment about re-opening "old wounds."

Agreed. I'm 99.44% certain that Carol Marcus was never intended to have been Kirk's wife. Rather, they had a romantic relationship at one point, and it ended poorly, as alluded to by Kirk and McCoy's exchange.

McCoy: It never rains, but it pours.
Kirk: As a physician, you of all people should appreciate the dangers of re-opening old wounds. <Kirk exits>
McCoy: Sorry.

Quote:LadyG - you're right. As far as I know, Carol Marcus and her relationship with Kirk is something that was created for the film and has no previous references in TOS (I stand to be corrected by those more knowledgable of course!)

Correct. There is no mention of her in TOS. She was created from whole-cloth especially for the movie. A very cunning plot point.

Quote:However, if you knew absolutely everything about the characters, where would the surprise skeletons in the cupboard come from? It's also very much in Kirk's character. We know he has a thing for the ladies, so to speak, so it's reasonable to assume that not only would he make a deeper attachment than he had bargained for in a particular relationship, but that also that accidents can happen.

Agreed. Completely agreed!

Quote:Funny to think that they obviously still have contraception issues in the 23rd century!

Oh, I think we can write this off as youthful indiscretion. Or, perhaps it wasn't. Perhaps Marcus thought she and Kirk were going to end up somewhere else, and so didn't take all the precautions she normally would have.
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It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#90
I watched Wrath of Khan last night. Carol Marcus and Kirk were never married, as you all remembered correctly.

David apparently knows who Kirk is, as in one of the opening scenes he says, approximately "you remember that overgrown boyscout you used to hang around with?," to which Carol replies that Kirk was many things but never a boyscout.

McCoy and Spock are both aware of the relationship, Bones specifically, but Spock is clearly has a reaction when he sees Carol Marcus on the Genesis proposal video that Kirk shows them in his quarters.

Kirk "stayed away" from David at Carol's request, as she didn't want David following in Kirk's footsteps to a career in Starfleet.

As always, I enjoyed watching the movie, especially since I haven't seen it in so long. Supremely crafted all the way around.
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#91
As you say Boomer- Kirk stayed away from David, and Carol didnt want David following in his father's footsteps, even tho it would seem Kirk didnt even know he was the father.
So at her request, he stayed away form the son so that he couldnt influence him in any way. Would that be a good assumption? Okay so neither knew the other was related to each other, but if Kirk stayed away it would be my guess that he did so not only because she asked him to, but because he didnt want to have any sort of influence on HER son so that the boy could figure out what he wanted to do for himself and not because there was a hotshot Starfleet officer always around for more than just kicks every now and then...

And I to would never see Kirk as a boyscout, heh...another interesting line for sure.

As for David knowing Kirk, well you explained that yourself- he apparantly was around, was in the boy's life here and there so that would explain how he knows Kirk.
Perhaps Carol was married or got married shortly after her affair with Kirk- and although SHE knew David was his son, she never told Kirk and they apparantly remaind friends after the boy was born.

Even if the first film takes place 15 years after TOS ended, that would still mean that Kirk has his affair with Carol sometime during that inital 5 year mission-and it's just gonna be one of those things that we will never truely find out about, much like alot of things we have been discussing here.
Just because we didnt see something happen doesnt mean it didnt...

At least in this new film- we can see the relationship between Kirk and Bones-they became best friends right? So it would be highly believable that Bones would know more things about Kirk than probably anyone so his reaction to seeing Carol and knowing of thier relationship in the second film- would seem logical to me-Spock probably simply heard about it along the way, hence his expressions towards it all, but Bones is the one who would most likely know of all the gory details and that became evidant in the second film.
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#92
Alas! I have missed the Spock-Uhuru subtext debate twice: first through the past 40 years with fandom in general and then in the past few weeks here on SF-Fandom.

I have had purely rotten luck on this topic!
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#93
Just an added tid-bit going back a few posts-ya know, that whole Spock and all of his relationships and well, you know...
Found an article from another Michael had posted that I just happen to read- came across a line where Nimoy spoke about "Amock Time" when Spock went back to visit Vulcan and had to re-interact with his own kind-as he prepared for his wedding ceremony....it was in 1967 when that episode aired, although it doesnt go into detail about the rest of the episode, or whom it was Spock was suppose to marry. But, I'm sure most of us or most of you already know the answer anyways. I just thought I would post it since I think there was a few back and forths going on about that episode in particular and all of it being part of the Spock we knew, trying to figure out the Spock of the new film.
The whole thing had derived from Nimoy explaining where the Vulcan hand symbol had come from...
Apparantly it's the hand symbol for a Hebrew letter meaning God...

He also goes on to say that "This is a very emotional experience for me. Watching this film stirred up a lot of feelings in me. The cast recaptures the chemistry that I felt was so important to the original series. I never stopped caring about ‘Star Trek’ but this made me care even more about it."

He goes on to say this "Quinto is great, he’s smart, talented,” Nimoy said. “For me, that(last) scene was almost like the fantasy a father would have about talking to his son. To offer some ideas, some guidance, affection and love – it has those elements. We bookend the Spock character: He’s playing a Spock still looking for a balance between logic and his emotion and my Spock, well, he’s gone through many years of life and arrived at condition very much like the position I am in here in my own life. I’m very comfortable with my life, my choices and my instincts. I was pretty much playing who I am today. I didn’t have to search very hard to find the character I play in this movie. And I think that was the end. But you know, I’ve thought that before about Spock.”

You can read the rest of the article, if interested....here:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomp....html#more
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#94
LadyG7284 Wrote:Even if the first film takes place 15 years after TOS ended, that would still mean that Kirk has his affair with Carol sometime during that inital 5 year mission-and it's just gonna be one of those things that we will never truely find out about, much like alot of things we have been discussing here.
Just because we didnt see something happen doesnt mean it didnt...
I always assumed David was conceived before the 5-year mission. And it really doesn't make sense otherwise, since it's very unlikely that David is just 18 or 20. He has to be a few years over 20, unless he was a real child prodigy who earned his doctorate as a teenager.
Treason, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
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#95
TimeTravellingBunny Wrote:I always assumed David was conceived before the 5-year mission. And it really doesn't make sense otherwise, since it's very unlikely that David is just 18 or 20. He has to be a few years over 20, unless he was a real child prodigy who earned his doctorate as a teenager.


Actually, according to the notes in the script, David is 20. I suppose he inherited some of his dad's above ordinary IQ!
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#96
Jammin Wrote:Actually, according to the notes in the script, David is 20. I suppose he inherited some of his dad's above ordinary IQ!

Interesting. Where did you come by that information?
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#97
Boomstick Wrote:Interesting. Where did you come by that information?

I'm sorry, that information is on a need to know basis - I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you! :gunfiring:





:muahaha:





Ok, ok, so I googled the script and it's there in the notes for David's introduction. I was intrigued by the discussion on the timeline and was looking for information that might be out there to confirm David's age, the relationships etc. Not 100% reliable I would admit, but it does make sense given the way the character is portrayed in the film and what we know of the sequence of events.
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#98
Jammin Wrote:Ok, ok, so I googled the script and it's there in the notes for David's introduction. I was intrigued by the discussion on the timeline and was looking for information that might be out there to confirm David's age, the relationships etc. Not 100% reliable I would admit, but it does make sense given the way the character is portrayed in the film and what we know of the sequence of events.

That's interesting. I suppose one could say that his education was greatly accelerated living with his mother. None the less, a doctorate in anything by the age of twenty is somewhat incredible.

Having said that, it really doesn't matter, the character works great, as does the actor.
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#99
I agree with Boomer-being a doc at the age of 20 is something but it would seem as if mom was well, kinda a genius? Or at least above average herself so it would almost seem logical that a child of hers would excel as well, not to mention that his father was also seemingly fairly smart too- even if we never really found out until this film that Kirk also excelled, as he promised Pike, he would finish the academy in 3 years, not 4 and he did, even if he kinda cheated his way thru the Maru he kept his promise right?
So to me that would mean that if he had a child with someone the child would most likely also end up excelling, and since David is a child of a somewhat genius mother and Kirk- I would guess the kid had to end up being ahead of his time in school, graduated early and did what his mother did-
Which I'm sure she was happy about- that he took after HER and not his father whom he never really knew was his father anyways, even if Carol knew the whole time.

As I said before, maybe Carol was already involved with someone at the time she met Kirk, maybe even married-she and Kirk had an affair and out pops a son and Kirk most likely assumed it was someone else's son, not his and she obviously went along with it all those years. The fact that Kirk visisted the boy when he was a child could be because he and Carol remained friends and the boy, at that time, could have been the closest thing Kirk thought he would ever get to having a son of his own, not knowing the boy was really his.
I think the whole thing was well done as well Boomer- bringing the son back into Kirk's life that way, then taking him away, bringing Kirk to hate Klingon's even more, hence going into the Undiscoverd County where he says he will never forgive them for the death of his son...
It certainly unwound a chain of events-

I still believe tho that Kirk meeting Carol had to take place during that initial 5 year mission- perhaps the first year then if the first film is 15 years after, and David is the age of 20 in the second film, that would put it just about right, and as I also said before, not seeing Kirk with Carol or ever hearing anything about her or thier relationship- is just one of those things we will have to assume happened when it happened. Maybe they will explore it in the next new Trek film...
There are just so many things that we already know from TOS and all of the films, they cant just omit it all and expect us to 'get it' and be happy with where they take things. The fact that they changed the time line in this film is one thing but to just omit and take out EVERYTHING from what we already know, wouldnt really make any sense and yet in that article Michael posted, it sounds like they are gonna do a turn around and bring things into the future that are happening today, like the war in Iraq...not sure how they think or expect that to work in space- if they go into having a war with Klingons or Ferengi or something, that would be rehashing stuff that's already been done and I cant see Abrams doing that- it wouldnt make for a good film and it wouldnt be something fans would most likely want to see happen again.
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LadyG7284 Wrote:I agree with Boomer-being a doc at the age of 20 is something but it would seem as if mom was well, kinda a genius? Or at least above average herself so it would almost seem logical that a child of hers would excel as well, not to mention that his father was also seemingly fairly smart too- even if we never really found out until this film that Kirk also excelled, as he promised Pike, he would finish the academy in 3 years, not 4 and he did, even if he kinda cheated his way thru the Maru he kept his promise right?
So to me that would mean that if he had a child with someone the child would most likely also end up excelling, and since David is a child of a somewhat genius mother and Kirk- I would guess the kid had to end up being ahead of his time in school, graduated early and did what his mother did-
Which I'm sure she was happy about- that he took after HER and not his father whom he never really knew was his father anyways, even if Carol knew the whole time.

I've just remembered that David 'cheated' with Genesis. Didn't he confess to using 'proto matter' or something as a short cut to get genesis working quickly, which led to it's instability? Like father like son!

As for potential directions for the franchise, I would be surprised if we didn't see the Klingons. To my mind they are the most iconic of all the Trek enemies. It would make sense to bring them into the new timeline, but I agree that a straightforward good guys/bad guys war film would not be the right thing to do. Also, if we do see the Klingons, what form will they take? Original TOS or Films/TNG onwards? And what of the deleted prison escape scene from the film? Was that cut for time or because they really wanted to save the Kligons for later?
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