Entish Democracy
#21
I suspect that the Sackville-Baggins brought suit in Hobbit-court to have Bilbo declared dead intestate, so that Odo, as his nearest living relative, could inherit Bag End and therefore auction off the bric-a-brac and furniture so that the S-Bs could move their own stuff in.
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Religio Medici
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#22
Attalus Wrote:I suspect that the Sackville-Baggins brought suit in Hobbit-court to have Bilbo declared dead intestate, so that Odo, as his nearest living relative, could inherit Bag End and therefore auction off the bric-a-brac and furniture so that the S-Bs could move their own stuff in.

I think the point is "Hobbit-court" is a tough concept for a land with no apparent government. Same with the Post office, roads, etc.

If you compare the Shire to Pooh's Hundred Acre Wood, or to Wind in the Willows or Redwall it works fine.

It seems less of the same world as Gondor, Numenor, and Harad, though.
Wrestling Darwin on a daily basis.

"Question boldly even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of reason than that of a blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
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#23
Mike of Quantum Muse Wrote:Exactly.

Hunter-gatherer societies could function on a small group level with little to no organized government. Complex agrarian societies like the Shire, not so much.
Of course, a question is whether Shire is a complex or a noncomplex agrarian society.

The English did not remember a time when they did not have a king, or many like Heptarchy. But the background of Germanic lore includes Iceland. With no king, and founded on rejection of kingship. Plus a few other commonwealths with a bit less saga inheritance but no or very remote king, like Faeroes and Gotland.

Iceland held Althings. Then the saga period Althing had a lot of violence and blood feuds. The Icelandic tradition held that in later 11th and early 12th century, Iceland had a period of relative peace, with few blood feuds or violence. Then again, it was a less interesting period, subject to fewer sagas - but still quite some.
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#24
The Shire is pretty much an idealized rural England with the serial numbers hastily filed off.
Wrestling Darwin on a daily basis.

"Question boldly even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of reason than that of a blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
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#25
If they didn't have courts, why did they require seven signatures in red ink to a will, "according to legal customs of Hobbits?" Ha, ha, I now have a set of books at the office.:alien:
"What song the Sirens sang, or what name Achilles assumed when he hid himself among women, though puzzling questions are not beyond conjecture." - Sir Thomas Browne, Religio Medici
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#26
Attalus Wrote:If they didn't have courts, why did they require seven signatures in red ink to a will, "according to legal customs of Hobbits?" Ha, ha, I now have a set of books at the office.:alien:

Yes, they had courts and laws and lawyers and wills and a Post office and roads.

They seemed to have all this with little in the way of government.

This is why the Shire makes a much sense as the talking fox who wanders past the sleeping hobbits as they make their way to Crickhollow.

Love it as I do, the book starts out as Redwall and then turns into the Niebelungenlied.
Wrestling Darwin on a daily basis.

"Question boldly even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of reason than that of a blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
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#27
Maybe teh hobbits have a constitution... or a charter?
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"A Iluvatarinya! En na pelecco carinyesse!"
"Oh my God! There's an axe in my head!" :worry:

http://www.yamara.com/axe/#Q1
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#28
Coconut Ent Wrote:Maybe teh hobbits have a constitution... or a charter?
They may have had a charter, but they do not follow it.

Arglebargle IV or someone else acquiesced to the arrival of Marcho and Blanco requiring that they "speed his messengers" (to where?) and keep all the bridges and roads in repair. Did Shire have a charter specifying the borders of the Shire and the officials responsible for speeding his messengers and repairing bridges and roads?

But the charter is not followed. The Stewards served kings of Gondor before their disappearance, and when the king went missing, they kept ruling till the return of the King. But whatever the arrangements for ruling the Shire were from Arglebargle IV to Arvedui, the Hobbits did not feel they could carry those on - they had to invent the post of Thain, and elect him.
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