Potterverse, Names (spoilers from end of Deathly Hallows)
#1
< spoilers for end of Deathly Hallows >














It seemed Harry named all the children he and Ginny had ......... for his parents {James, Lily} and for two Hogwarts' Headmasters, Dumbledore and Snape.

At first, the names of Hermionie and Ron's children made no sense, for I couldn't find an immediate connection to others in the story, for them to have been 'named after'.

Rose. Well, in Harry's family, there was a Petunia and a Lily, that is, a tradition of using flower names for girls. But not in Ron or Hermionie's family ......

But then, I thought, perhaps Ron named his daughter, and she was "said to have been" named for some "Auntie Rose" in his vast, extended family; but that when he said her name, he perhaps thought fondly of the curvy matron who ran a certain bar in Hogsmede .........

As for "Hugo", the only thing I can come up with is that Hermionie named their son, and that she told Ron she used the last name of her very favorite Muggle author ......... and never told Ron Mr Hugo's first name ............

Any other theories?

Edited to add:

Draco, the Dragon, had a little Scorpion. Fitting.

Did the Malfoy's learn anything? At the end, the entire family sat among the celebarting Wizarding community, huddled together, all without wands, uncertain of their status. It seemed to me that both Lucius and Narcissa had given up caring for their position in LV's camp in favor of love and concern for their son. However, Draco kept on trying for favor with LV, right to the end ........ attempting to thwart Harry's quest for the Ravenclaw Horcrux, and even after Harry saved him from the Fiendfyre, still attempting to serve LV, or, at least, claiming to be on the Death Eater's side.

Did Harry give Draco back his wand? Were his parents able to purchase new wands from Olivander? [Lucius' wand was broken when LV attacked Harry at the outset of Deathly Hallows; Narcessa gave Draco her wand when he went back to Hogwarts, after he had lost his to Harry, but it was lost in the Room of Requirement, in the fire ................] Would Olivander make them new wands? Did Draco ask forgivness, make an apology to Harry and his friends?
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#2
Darq Ali Wrote:Did Draco ask forgiveness, make an apology to Harry and his friends?

Unfortunately I doubt it. The way Ron treated him at the train station gave me the impression no words were exchanged from the battle of Hogwarts on.

Edit: I just notices there are no spoiler tags. you may want to edit them in.
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#3
Lt. Joe Wrote:Unfortunately I doubt it. The way Ron treated him at the train station gave me the impression no words were exchanged from the battle of Hogwarts on.

[spoiler for Deathly Hallows follows]










I am not certain this was so; at the very least, the Trio knew Draco had a son, and that his name was Scorpious.

I was somewhat disappointed with the issue of Hogwarts' Houses and the Sorting Hat.

It seemed to me, that in the 'lighter' tone of the earlier books, the Houses were a simple devise which moved the story along, providing proper school rivals their places to be. A "good" {Griffendor} house, a "bad" house {Slythern} , a secondary "good" house {Ravenclaw} and a left over {Hufflepuff} to round out the number, giving 4 houses to form teams for Quidditch.

As the tone darkened and the plots became more mature, the simple issue no longer fit as well. Dividing the school was problematic: Even the Sorting Hat pointed out the problem, and we looked back at the history of the school, to the founders .......... who themselves became so divided that Slythern left, and yet left behind a seed of evil sleeping under the school, which was to awaken to ....... kill innocent students, ye gods!

Dumbledore's soft observation that 'sometimes he thought they Sort too soon .........', aimed at Snape, was a bitter moment for both. Snape came to school, presumably with the heritiage of thinking "Slythern would be best for me", but also in love with brave Lily, who had a mischievious streak that might have suited her to a less-dark Slythern House, but who ended up with the brave in Griffendor. Had Snape matured a bit, and been Sorted into that House, we might presume that her sunny nature and friendship might have kept Snape from turning sour and befriending future Death Eaters, and prevented his becoming one, himself.

And yet, 19 years later, the Sorting Hat is still in use, and the Trio is still passing on their conceptions of which House is 'best' for their children to aspire to join;

And Ron suggests that Draco's son is to be seen as "someone to beat" in every class. Yes, the women attempt to soften the messages, but they remain. Slytherns remain the "bad" students.

I was saddened too that Draco at least of all the Malfoys couldn't admit error in their LV-worship; that NOT ONE Slythern student remained to fight for the Good Side; that Slythern colors were totally absent from the hiding place in the Room of Requirement.

Why not, then, abolish Slythern House? Establish a new fourth House, with a different tradition? Or, have sports teams as independant entities for competition, but not have Houses based on an early "talent and temperment" Sorting at all, but mix the students more?

Anyway, the adults [Draco, Ron, Harry] acknowledge one-another at the end; an uneasy respect is what I saw from Draco, and tolerence at best from the others.

Not the best of outcomes. Perhaps, rather realistic, though? After all, the closest we got to any "good" Slytherns were Snape and Slughorn, and neither is a real role model. Snape is pulled to serve the "good" by his love for Lily and remorse over his own act, which cost her life; but his bitter, mean spirited and unfair nature was no act ........... Slughorn is self-serving and prejudiced and lacking in principle at best.
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#4
Hi Darq, I just changed the thread title a bit. It was just a smidgeon spoilerish.
I wonder if other dogs think poodles are members of a weird religious cult. -Rita Rudner
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#5
CJ~ Wrote:Hi Darq, I just changed the thread title a bit. It was just a smidgeon spoilerish.

Thank you. Admit I'm not very good at this. Doesn't seem to matter what subject I come up with, though; no one wants to discuss. * sigh * "the Next Generation" seemed to echo Star Trek, that's why I used the term.
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#6
Darq Ali Wrote:Thank you. Admit I'm not very good at this. Doesn't seem to matter what subject I come up with, though; no one wants to discuss. * sigh * "the Next Generation" seemed to echo Star Trek, that's why I used the term.

As the resident gadfly, I'll have to disagree with you, again. There seem to be no end of topics that I'm more than willing to throw my hat into the ring for, and in the past, I dunno, six or eight months, they have stemmed a great deal from your own personal observations.

I've learned a great deal about Harry Potter from said discussions. In fact, it's the highlight of my days to get involved in a good knock-down, drag out over various subjects of the Potterverse. <shrug>

My only regret is that my own personal advisor is currently out of the loop. My wife has decided to read just ten pages a day of Deathly Hallows, so that there will still be a good chunk of the book left when she goes into labor. She feels this will be an excellent distraction if I read it to her at the hospital. It's made keeping my mouth shut a top priority, one at which I am ill-equipped to master.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#7
I also like the discussions we've been having here, Darq. I tried another site that has an active HP forum, but I think that our discussions better suit what I am looking for.

I was amused by the original title, but I agree it carried more information than maybe should be seen right now for anyone who hasn't finished the book.

I know that JKR says she'll only write the encyclopedia now. But I'd love to have more Potterverse books. I wonder what kind of stories could come from the Next Generation.
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#8
Like Anne McCaffrey's Pern, there is room in Potterverse both for a "next generation" and backstory; one could learn a great deal about Hogwarts in the years Hagrid was a student, for example {attempting to raise Werewolf cubs under his bed? Aragog in a cupboard?}; and the years of the Merauders, later. Or, a mystery, perhaps, centered on brave but gentle, wise and surprisingly talented Neville, Hogwarts Proffesor of Herbology and Head of Griffendore House ......... perhaps there are strange goings-on in the Forbidden Forest; Grawp may have a lady friend; oh, there is lots more possible.

Lots of room for more. Anne McCaffrey said she had a trilogy in mind for Pern, but wrote a great deal more, after; even her son had a turn with a short novel set there. So if JKR has more to tell us, perhaps, in the fullness of time, she will.

So, where do you think the names "Rose" and "Hugo" come from, for Ron and Hermionies' children?
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#9
Darq Ali Wrote:So, where do you think the names "Rose" and "Hugo" come from, for Ron and Hermionies' children?

What were Hermione's parent's names?

I recall a suggestion, also, that it was to keep the initials the same:

Ron Weasley - Rose Weasley
Hermione Weasley - Hugo Weasley

My father and law was forbidden to name any of his sons after him. The negotiation was that he could name his first daughter after him. His name is Brent. Her name is Brenda. I liked that.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#10
Rose - Hermoine's favorite flower?
Hugo - they were both Losties? Wink
Sheldon: I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.

~ The Big Bang Theory
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#11
RobRoy Wrote:What were Hermione's parent's names?

I recall a suggestion, also, that it was to keep the initials the same:

Ron Weasley - Rose Weasley
Hermione Weasley - Hugo Weasley

Yes, that works!

And all I could come up with was an echo of Rosmerta and Victor.

It did seem that the wizarding families tended to often choose middle names from among the family; Ron was "Ronald Bilius Weasley" and he had an "Uncle Bilius" {who was the life of the party, but never married .......}.

My father and law was forbidden to name any of his sons after him. The negotiation was that he could name his first daughter after him. His name is Brent. Her name is Brenda. I liked that.

Yes, I like that, too.

My family has a tradition that the first son has as his middle name his mother's maiden name. That sort of can work out nice, but my brother's first son became 'Peter McGregor Trevethan' by that system, and I always think of Peter Rabbit and his feud with Farmer McGregor as a consequence. I mean, the middle name was fine but I found it unfortunate when paired with Peter, but I'm alone in that. Guess it is a consequence of reading too many children's books, or something.
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#12
Darq Ali Wrote:[That sort of can work out nice, but my brother's first son became 'Peter McGregor Trevethan' by that system, and I always think of Peter Rabbit and his feud with Farmer McGregor as a consequence.

Sounds like the same problem that James Caan's character had in the John Wayne movie El Dorado: Alan Bourdillion Traherne. He went by Mississippi. :bg:
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#13
Darq Ali Wrote:[spoiler for Deathly Hallows follows]


Why not, then, abolish Slythern House? Establish a new fourth House, with a different tradition? Or, have sports teams as independant entities for competition, but not have Houses based on an early "talent and temperment" Sorting at all, but mix the students more?

If all Slytherins were really bad and, more espcailly, Slytherin House were genuinely a breeding place of evil and a recruitment place for Death eaters, I thibk it would have been closed or at least thoroughly reformed by Dumbledore a long time ago.

The fact that it did not happen shows that there were exceptions, which maybe were not sufficiently prominent to be mentioned as such in the story?

BTW, does Rowling ever confirm Dumbledore's house? I was thinking he might possibly be a Slytherin on account of his friendshiop with Gindelwald and his "for the greater good" anti-muggle policy. He later regretted this, showing that Slytherins can overcome their evil leanings.
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#14
I can clearly think of a scene in one of the films, where Dumbledore talks to Harry, and says something about setting his bed curtains on fire when he had the same dorm room; so that would make DD a Griffendor. But I don't recall a passage in the book, unless it would be in the first one, when the houses are first explained to Harry; I know Hermionie says, in her first meeting with Harry on the train, "I hear DD himself was one" when she says Griffendor was 'the best House'. But "I hear" is not proof {though, Hermionie was basing this on her background reading, so she was probably right ..........
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#15
Arcadia Wrote:I also like the discussions we've been having here, Darq. I tried another site that has an active HP forum, but I think that our discussions better suit what I am looking for.

I was amused by the original title, but I agree it carried more information than maybe should be seen right now for anyone who hasn't finished the book.

I know that JKR says she'll only write the encyclopedia now. But I'd love to have more Potterverse books. I wonder what kind of stories could come from the Next Generation.

I still hope the JK Rowling writes no more potterverse books. THe encyclopedia is great but i think that's about it. We've discussed it before...if JK rowling wrote something else it would probably be out of fan pressure. If she had to write another one though i'd like to see Hogwarts when James and Sirius were there.
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#16
AJ786 Wrote:I still hope the JK Rowling writes no more potterverse books. THe encyclopedia is great but i think that's about it. We've discussed it before...if JK rowling wrote something else it would probably be out of fan pressure. If she had to write another one though i'd like to see Hogwarts when James and Sirius were there.

For me it would depend on quality.

Again, Anne McCaffrey initially intended a trilogy of books about Pern. She then picked up a minor character {The Harper} and centered a second Trilogy on his role, and that of an Apprentice, in the same time-frame of the origional story. But then there were other stories begging to be told, and there are many more Pern books; short stories, too. I am glad she didn't stop writing about Pern, as are many others.

If JKR finds she has other Potterverse stories to tell ....... such as, the era of the Merauders at Hogwarts, or even the era of the Founders ...... not to mention, "the Next Generation" ....... we may appreciate them. I mean, imagine being the second son of Harry Potter, and having to live up to his reputation {and an older brothers'} at Hogwarts, and having something mysterious happening there, such as ....... oh, I don't know, creatures in the Forbidden Forest learning to talk, or all castle's ghosts disappearing one at a time, whatever ............ could be entertaining.

Time will tell.

Then again, JKR may find she has other kinds of stories to tell. For example, I am very fond of MM Kaye's mysteries, but she also wrote some very popular romance novels {"The Far Pavilians"} and plays, too. Quality work, all.
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#17
If I had a project on my mind for many years, even though I may say that I want to stop the project at a certain point, chances are that I don't immediately drop all thoughts of a project like turning a light switch off. The project would probably still float around in my mind, especially after a while of not actively working on it. So if JKR decides to write more Potterverse stories, I think, or hope, that they would not be drudgery because of fan pressure, but a welcome resuming of a long term and loved project.
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#18
Darq Ali Wrote:For me it would depend on quality.

Again, Anne McCaffrey initially intended a trilogy of books about Pern. She then picked up a minor character {The Harper} and centered a second Trilogy on his role, and that of an Apprentice, in the same time-frame of the origional story. But then there were other stories begging to be told, and there are many more Pern books; short stories, too. I am glad she didn't stop writing about Pern, as are many others.

If JKR finds she has other Potterverse stories to tell ....... such as, the era of the Merauders at Hogwarts, or even the era of the Founders ...... not to mention, "the Next Generation" ....... we may appreciate them. I mean, imagine being the second son of Harry Potter, and having to live up to his reputation {and an older brothers'} at Hogwarts, and having something mysterious happening there, such as ....... oh, I don't know, creatures in the Forbidden Forest learning to talk, or all castle's ghosts disappearing one at a time, whatever ............ could be entertaining.

Time will tell.

Then again, JKR may find she has other kinds of stories to tell. For example, I am very fond of MM Kaye's mysteries, but she also wrote some very popular romance novels {"The Far Pavilians"} and plays, too. Quality work, all.

You really seem to like these pern books Smile. i may have to pick them up sometime.
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#19
AJ786 Wrote:You really seem to like these pern books Smile. i may have to pick them up sometime.

Yes, Pern is a very charming alternate Universe.

Anne McCaffrey has created several. If you want a sample that has only one book, try Restoree; there are no other volumes about the world depicted there. That is actually her first novel, an especially good one for a first effort, though she has many short stories.

The first trilogy of Pern stories is Dragonflight, followed by Dragonquest and then The White Dragon.

A second and much smaller trilogy set in the same time frame is Dragonsong, followed by Dragonsinger and Dragondrums.

There are several other novels which are set in other times, and some short stories, to. Anne McCaffrey's son is a writer in his own right, and he recently published a Pern-based novel as well.

Anne McCaffrey has several other significant bodies of work other than the Pern novels, and not all are sci-fi or fantasy. I understand there is a biography of her recently released.

P.S. edited to add: Just checked, Dragonflight was published in 1968, but was just in the bookstore last Wednesday, and it is on the shelf there in a current issue, as are most of her other major works. The reason such books remain in print for so long is their quality.
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#20
I read some of the Pern books about 20 or more years ago. I was enchanted with the first one and read it several times. The next two were pretty good, I read the 4th and decided that I wouldn't bother reading any more.

I don't know if I'd read them again if I'd think of them differently. I find that time changes me and my perception of books. Such as Heinlein's and Asimov's.

This discussion really belongs in the general books forum so that more people could join in the discussion. What I think I'll do is to leave what we have here and copy the last two posts over to a thread in the other forum. So please post other Pern or people changing as time passes conversation in the new thread.

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