Order of the Phoenix *SPOILERS!*
#1
Order of the Phoenix is my favorite book of the HP series (so far... 9 more days!). It's also the longest book, so in order to make it into a film a lot of material had to be trimmed and condensed. Overall, I felt like everything that needed to be there in order to make the story work was there. I don't want to say that I'm disappointed, because I think the filmmakers did an excellent job with it, but there were some things I wish they had included/done differently.

Beware! Here be SPOILERS.

For starters, there was not nearly enough Lupin. He didn't even go with the Advance Guard to pick Harry up at the Dursleys! He just sat around at Grimmauld Place with Sirius. Not cool! And he looked really good, too.... *cough*

Also, I was a little let down with the Snape's Worst Memory scene, as we didn't get to see Lily (and if she was there, I must've missed her... she didn't say anything, that's for sure). Should've been a little longer.

Other than those two grievances, I was happy with the film. Fred and George were brilliant (as always). Loony Lovegood turned out absolutely perfect (Yvanna Lynch has that dreamy far-away look down). All the creatures were amazing. I hate Umbridge and her stupid cat plates even more than I did before. I didn't have to sit through a Cho/Harry soap opera (there's just enough of their relationship, but not too much). And the more I see of the chemistry between Ron and Hermione (and/or Rupert and Emma) the more I fall in love with the pairing. Alan Rickman was, as usual, utterly and completely superb as Snape. The villains were fantastic (Lucius, Bellatrix, You Know Who). Tonks was hilarious. And Grawp! Grawp was sooo adorable with his little handlebar bell. :love:

Just... I liked everything except those two things I mentioned above. I think I'll have to go see it again. :bg:
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#2
I wasn't very pleased with having Cho be the one that turned in the DA. It's not that I have anything for or against her, it simply makes the relationship end rather on a different note than it did. Well, he was still angry with her, but... okay, maybe it didn't.

I was disappointed that they didn't include Harry's interview and Umbridge's reaction. I've always just loved that particular part.

I think they could have had more fun with the fireworks, and the time lines were a bit kerflewy. They left in a couple of the better lines though and there seemed to be a little bit of subtle foreshadowing of the Ginny-Harry relationship coming in the next segment.

I must agree that the young lady playing Luna did do a wonderful job. She looked rather far away all the time (and her voice had rather the same quality) but I think the very best look on her face was the placid enjoyment of the thestral ride. I laughed with pure pleasure at that and everyone looked at me like I was nuts. Of course, since they didn't show the nervousness of the other riders, I guess it just wasn't obvious.

Not sure how I feel about it as a whole. Probably won't decide until after I've seen it again this weekend.
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#3
Dixie Wrote:I wasn't very pleased with having Cho be the one that turned in the DA. It's not that I have anything for or against her, it simply makes the relationship end rather on a different note than it did. Well, he was still angry with her, but... okay, maybe it didn't.

I wasn't quite sure what to think of that at first, either. I wasn't displeased, mainly because I don't like the character at all, but I think the fact that Umbridge used Veritaserum to get the truth out of Cho sort of softened the blow. I have to wonder how it will affect their relationship in the next film, though. Harry doesn't have a reason to be mad at Cho anymore, since it wasn't really her fault that she turned in the D.A. and she wasn't showing loyalty to a traitor like in the book. But I think Cho has a reason to be mad at Harry, because he was mad at her and/or didn't believe her and/or she thinks he's more interested in Hermione (I caught a hint of that when Hermione ran up to Harry to tell him that Hagrid had returned, and Harry left Cho standing on the steps). However they handle it in the next film, I think there's just way too much baggage between the two of them to make a successful couple. And with Harry staying at the Weasleys all summer between fifth and sixth years and growing more close to Ginny, he'll be too busy daydreaming about her to bother thinking about Cho (all Cho really did in the sixth book is ignore Harry anyway). I think it'll still work out... well, not so much for Cho.
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#4
Haven't seen the movie yet, but why exactly would they have to deal with Harry/Cho in the next film? There's only one line early on in the book about Harry's failed relationship with Cho. Not much to deal with there.
Sheldon: I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.

~ The Big Bang Theory
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#5
Well it is really not enough reading these posts...I really have to watch the movie...LOL! I'm dying to watch it...waaaaaaaaaa!
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#6
Niphredil Wrote:I wasn't quite sure what to think of that at first, either. I wasn't displeased, mainly because I don't like the character at all, but I think the fact that Umbridge used Veritaserum to get the truth out of Cho sort of softened the blow.
True. But it's not like they have to pick up the relationship to even show they broke up for the next movie (as someone else here pointed out). I think I would have enjoyed seeing the hex that Hermione put on the person who told though <G>

Another thing it was really too bad they didn't show was the end of the book where the group confronts the Dursleys *chuckle* Or Umbridge running from the school - okay, so there's no Peaves to follow so I suppose it wouldn't have worked out.

I did note that Hagrid didn't mention anything about Madame Maxime going with him to the giants.

All in all, I suppose it was good - the acting was good, the special effects were great. One scene that particularly stands out for me is the scene where Sirus falls through the curtain - that was very well done. And then of course there was Luna on her Thestral ride which I just loved. And yes, Grawp with his bell was rather too cute.

I'm sure I'll come up with more as this all sinks in. Sometimes it takes me a couple of days to absorb everything. And I'll be going again this weekend so that'll help too.
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#7
I'm pretty sure that Cho is gone from the movies now. The actor said she doubts her return or w/e. anyone agree that the scenes transitions were really choppy. especially when one minute Harry's alone in Umbridges office and then randomly Neville, Ginny, Luna, Ron and Hermione show up?
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#8
AJ786 Wrote:I'm pretty sure that Cho is gone from the movies now. The actor said she doubts her return or w/e. anyone agree that the scenes transitions were really choppy. especially when one minute Harry's alone in Umbridges office and then randomly Neville, Ginny, Luna, Ron and Hermione show up?
No real reason for her to return in the movies to my way of thinking.

Definately agree about the rather choopy transistions. Amused me that Neville was brought in with the explanation that he was trying to help... Ginny? I think that's what was said anyway. Definately a toss for those looking for relationships if they think it means a Ginny-Neville relationship. :poke:

Someone asked me if I cried when Sirus died in the movie (heaven knows my tears were running a river with the book version). I didn't cry during the movie. I suspect the reason I didn't was that they cut away from that so that it wasn't backed by attention to the heavy emotional weight. The scene in the movie had all the total shock value of the book but just as I was giving way to the reaction, they moved on. (I would point out that I didn't start crying until the end first page of the new chapter in the book) The other place in the book that I just cried and cried was when Harry found the mirror and tried to contact Sirius then ran to find Sir Nick so it was probably just as well that they left that out Confusedo:. I think had the movie given me time to react, I'd have been in tears though.
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#9
GamgeeFest Wrote:Haven't seen the movie yet, but why exactly would they have to deal with Harry/Cho in the next film? There's only one line early on in the book about Harry's failed relationship with Cho. Not much to deal with there.

Oh, I don't think they will or should deal with Harry and Cho's relationship in the next movie. It's just because of the way the exposure of the D.A. was handled in the movie, Harry doesn't have any reason to remain angry at Cho because it wasn't her fault for spilling the beans; so I think people who haven't read the books and are not as familiar with their relationship might wonder why they didn't get back together, because what happened between them was really just a misunderstanding. Or maybe they won't wonder. Either way, if they leave Cho out of the sixth movie altogether, I shall be very well pleased. :bg:


I wondered about Neville helping Ginny as well. I think there's a deleted scene in there somewhere. IIRC from the book, Ginny was acting as a lookout so Harry could get into Umbridge's office, when the Inquisitorial Squad busted her and Neville tried to defend her. Maybe they filmed such a scene but it was cut.

Oh and speaking of Neville, I was glad that he wasn't portrayed as a bucktoothed dimwit in this film. And he was so cute with his mimbulus mimbletonia. :love:
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#10
Ok, just saw the movie and.... well... I don't know quite what to think of it. I enjoyed it very much and at times was completely absorbed in the story, to the point that I forgot I was sitting in a movie theater. At other times, I was so jarred by the changes that it took me out of the movie, but I can't say that any of the changes are really that bad. They were just different. They took a lot of the book out, but I think the movie is easy enough to follow despite that and most of what was left in was quite faithful.

First the things I didn't like:

Kreacher seemed unnecessary. He's clearly as insane and malicious as he is in the books, but you just don't see the friction between him and Sirius. There's one scene with the two of them, and Sirius treats him mostly indifferently.

12 Grimauld Place wasn't as decrepit as I thought it would be, and it was a track house rather than a house house.

Snape's worst memory was downplayed too much. You didn't get the sense that James was picking on Snape for no reason. Lily wasn't even there. (Please, let that put to rest the Snape/Lily theories.) And as the memory came about not from Harry spying in the Pensieve, but by Harry breaking through Snape's defenses during the Occlumency lessons - you know, like he was *supposed* to do - then Snape's dismissal of him seems just petty.

Cho ratting out the DA through use of the Veratiserum - I see what you mean, now, Nip. Those who haven't read the books might be expecting for Harry and Cho to get back together now. But we never see her again in the movie after Harry brushes past her after detention. This leaves a lot unresolved.

The editing - some of the transitions were rather choppy and sudden. For instance, you see Harry, Hermoine and Ron going into Umbridge's office to try to talk to Sirius. Two seconds later, Umbridge is busting them and hauling Neville, Ginny and Luna into the office too. Why were Neville, Ginny and Luna there? At only 2 hrs, 12 minutes, surely they could have spared an additional 5 minutes to set this up properly.

Hermoine - love her, don't get me wrong, and there's no doubt that Emma Watson is an exceptional actress. But it felt like the entire script was written for her. I think Ron opens his mouth a total of 10 times through the entire film. Please, screen writers, the HP books are about a trio of friends, not a duo plus Ron. Don't let Hermoine steal the movies.

Now, the things I did like:

Sirius and Harry's relationship. Given that we saw so little of him in GoF, I was afraid that there wouldn't be enough foundation there for their relationship and where it needed to go in this film. That however was not the case. They did an excellent job of showing just how important Sirius is to Harry, and Sirius's slip at the end when he tells Harry, "good one, James!" is very telling of Sirius's penchant of thinking that Harry and James are one in the same. His death could have been better handled, but given how much things were condensed and how quickly they needed to move on to the next scene, it was much more clear that Sirius was in fact dead by having Bellatrix AK him into the Veil, rather than just having him fall through it and disappear.

Ginny - she's a powerful witch, let no one be mistaken about that! She didn't have a lot of lines, but there were some great little instances in which we see that she is still interested in Harry even if Harry still has no clue she exists.

Umbridge - perfectly abominable! The cat plates hanging all over her walls were hilarious. Her little "heh-hum" was perfect. You just love to hate her, and her vulnerability shows here where it doesn't in the books and makes her power-tripping that much more entertaining. The cover art on the spell books she gave to her class looked like the art cover on a "Jack and Jill" book. "See Jack run. See Jill sit." Big Grin

The Rebellion - I would have loved to see more of Fred and George's upheaval and the aftermath of it, but it was fairly well summed up by Prof. Flitwick's fist pump! Big Grin And as they chose that moment to jump forward to the climax, there really wasn't time to expand on it anyway.

The DA - well covered in the book, and I like that Neville was treated with respect here and that they finally explained his parents' background. It makes his determination that much more heartbreaking to watch and his triumph that much more exciting.

Luna - I thought she could have been a little more dreamy than they showed her, but that's a very mild complaint. The actress did a wonderful job. I just hope that people don't walk away from this movie theorizing on a Harry/Luna match-up. There is much more time spent on H-L than there is on Harry/Cho.

Grawp was cute. Nuff said. And is it just me, or did Grawp look like an overgrown, deformed version of Sam Gamgee?

The Ministry of Magic looked phenomenal. That giant, floating tapestry of the Minister was creepily reminiscent of the posters of Adolf Hitler during WWII. It alone shows more than anything else how easy it is to become our own worst enemies.

Dumbledore's treatment of Harry, or lack thereof, was much more palpable in the movie than in the books. And Harry's fears that he was becoming like Voldemort were handled very well also. The battle at the Ministry was amazing and no longer than it needed to be. Voldemort's invasion of Harry, and Harry's triumph over him, were easily the most stirring moments in the movie. Harry doesn't go into Drama Queen mode after the battle, but they dumbed down the Prophecy quite a lot. Hopefully, that will be better explained in the next movie.

Don't have much else to say. I'll probably have to see it a couple more times to know how I really feel about it.
Sheldon: I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.

~ The Big Bang Theory
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#11
Interesting talk about what was left out of the film.

If there was no true 'traitor' to the DA group {Mariatta was left out} that is interesting.

One thing that somewhat bothered me about Hermionie's character in that tale was the result of her hex on the roster paper when they signed up for the DA. Yes, we know Hermionie is a very clever young witch; and when the "sneak" blemished appeared on the traitor's face, what was even more interesting was that even Mme Pomphrey could not remove them. When she returns the following fall, she's still unchanged; so we can presume no one at St Mungo's could, either.

Wow!

But - does the punishment suit the crime? Will this teenager be marked for life, for her lapse in judgement? What does this say about Hermionie?

The other thing that troubled me about Hermionie {in the books} was her letting loose the 'attack birds' on Ron when he's off snogging a rival.

I mean, I know she's a little witch, but ...... wow!

If they left the whole issue of the curse on the DA roster paper out, then it isn't really telling about Hermionie. I have always discounted her as the potential traitor [we're told to expect] in the last book, because she is Muggle born, but that act seemed - rather "Dark" to me .........
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#12
Darq Ali Wrote:But - does the punishment suit the crime? Will this teenager be marked for life, for her lapse in judgement? What does this say about Hermionie?

Consider the stakes. They didn't form the D.A. for extra credit or after school play time. They were seriously trying to learn to defend themselves against Voldemort and his followers, fully aware that they faced expulsion from school if they did try and eminent death at the hands of Voldemort and his followers if they didn't. All the while they were under assault from Umbridge, a woman who had no qualms about sending Dementors to attack a student or about using the Cruciatus Curse on a student or about using special quills that write with a student's own blood, and who was essentially trying to brainwash them into believing that they lived in a perfectly happy little world. So yes, personally, I would say that the punishment suited the crime. IMO it was more than a simple lapse in judgment on Marietta's part; as I recall she never liked Harry or the D.A.

Darq Ali Wrote:The other thing that troubled me about Hermionie {in the books} was her letting loose the 'attack birds' on Ron when he's off snogging a rival.

Hermione may be a clever witch, but she's still a somewhat emotionally immature teenager. She was hurt, and she took out her anger at Ron with canaries. A little extreme, perhaps a little childish, but it hardly makes her a Death Eater. I think it's a little too soft for Voldemort's tastes, anyway.
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#13
Darq Ali Wrote:The other thing that troubled me about Hermionie {in the books} was her letting loose the 'attack birds' on Ron when he's off snogging a rival.

Hell hath no fury like a witch scorned. :wicked:
Sheldon: I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.

~ The Big Bang Theory
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#14
GamgeeFest Wrote:Kreacher seemed unnecessary. He's clearly as insane and malicious as he is in the books, but you just don't see the friction between him and Sirius. There's one scene with the two of them, and Sirius treats him mostly indifferently.

And this is what I love about the movies. Because Rowling acts as a consultant, and has a final say on some of the changes, she has insisted some things stay, while allowing others to go.

Kreacher's pressence means that he is necessary and will serve some vital role either as we have already seen in Half-Blood or perhaps (and I would say most likely) into Deathly Hallows.

Also interesting was the interaction between Neville and Luna in the Ministry of Magic. They would make a rather cute couple, IMNSHO.

Beyond that, though, I found the entire movie to be something of a bore. The use of a mostly documentary director was revealed in the disjointed shifts between scenes. The lack of any truly cohesive story was a big let down, and I think the movie, as a whole, suffered for it. Umbridge was built up quickly, only to become a one-note joke, which is unfortunate since she was such a wonderfully vile character in the books. Harry's connection with Voldemort was glossed over, leaving us with very little reason to trust his need to get to the Ministry following the feed on Sirius. Ron was, as Gamgee relates, almost completely dropped from the film altogether, and the relationship between Ron, Hermione and Harry made them appear more like school acquaintances than the tried-and-true-blue friends-and-more we know them to be.

On the plus side, the one scene that was truly necessary came off very well:

To view, use your mouse to select the text:
The battle in the Ministry, the duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort, and above all the death of Sirius came off very well.

But a few scenes at the climax do not a good movie make. Order of the Phoenix is, so far, the longest of the Potter books, and yet this adaptation is the shortest of all the movies. Poor decisions on the director's part, and poor decision on the choice of director.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#15
And IIRC this same director is already signed up to do HBP. :bg:

I know that Kreacher was left in at JKR's request, but he still *feels* unnecessary in this movie. They never explain why he's muttering to himself all the time, or how/why he became insane and malicious, they don't take the time to build the hostile relationship between him and Sirius, and then they don't even bother to show his crucial scene at the end when he misdirects Harry to go to the MoM.

I liked the movie well enough on first viewing, but then again, I also rejoiced ROTK on first viewing and now, because of that movie, I can't stand to watch ANY of the LOTR movies. So it is going to take me awhile to finally figure out how I really feel about OotP. I doubt it's going to top PoA as my favorite, but beyond that I just don't know.
Sheldon: I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.

~ The Big Bang Theory
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#16
Hello, all! I've dropped in and lurked from time to time, but I dont think I've ever posted here before.

I saw that the person who took the book and made it into a script was just filling in for the regular person who was on sabatical, so *that's* a good thing! Next movie should be more what we are used to. Have to wonder, though, if he will regret the sabatical when he tries to build on someone else's work.

Spoilers, of course!

I understand they had to make lots of cuts. I understand them not having Quidditch, for example, or why they werent clearer on Neville being able to see the theskals (sp?). But (of course) they made different choices than I would have.

I thought it was a waste to have Sirius tell Kreacher to get out and then not follow up on it.

I thought they could have saved time by reducing how long all those globes exploded and put in something else instead.

I would have *loved* to have seen McGonagall stunned as she rushed to Hagrid's defense! And I'd gladly have given up seeing Filch playing with those frames in exchange for it! And I'd have rather seen the scene with the Dursleys instead of Harry and Luna holding hands and looking at tennis shoes. Big Grin

I did think the scenes with the centaurs were good!

People who hadnt read the books didnt understand that George and Fred were leaving Hogwarts for good, but I guess the next movie will clear that up for them.

I thought *all* the actors did really well. I think the actress that played Luna did a good job and so did the one playing Umbridge. This has been my least favorite book because Umbridge just makes me so *mad*! And of course, there is that death to deal with. Took a napkin with me anticipating tears, but didnt need it. The person who went with me hadnt read the book and was absolutely furious at Rowling because of Sirius' death. But so was I when I read it!

Wont be buying this one unless they do an Extended Edition.

Thanks for letting me join in!
nautika
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#17
nautika Wrote:People who hadnt read the books didnt understand that George and Fred were leaving Hogwarts for good, but I guess the next movie will clear that up for them.
They might have. They did leave in the remarks about their achivements lying outside the "academics". Having read the book once or twice, I could have simply inferred that, so I called up a friend of mine (who refuses to read the books until she's seen all the movies) and she said that she inferred that they were quiting school at that point, so I'd guess that at least some of the people got it.
nautika Wrote:Wont be buying this one unless they do an Extended Edition.
I will be buying it so I'm hoping pretty hard that they will have an extended version or something with some of the deleted scenes. It's part of the set and I like to have them in sets - heck, I even bought Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (which has never actually been watched in my house *chuckle*)

BTW - Welcome Nautika. :wave: Hope you post often!
:hello:"Will all of you who would like to die immediately and save yourselves the inconvenience and discomfort of being chased down and slowly hacked to pieces please step forward!"
Polgara as Barak
The Mallorean - Book 2
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#18
GamgeeFest Wrote:And IIRC this same director is already signed up to do HBP. :bg:

Yes, he has. Although he's stated that he will do less CGI than he did in Order, which seems silly to me. I didn't think there was all that much CGI to begin with. <shrug>

Quote:I know that Kreacher was left in at JKR's request, but he still *feels* unnecessary in this movie. They never explain why he's muttering to himself all the time, or how/why he became insane and malicious, they don't take the time to build the hostile relationship between him and Sirius, and then they don't even bother to show his crucial scene at the end when he misdirects Harry to go to the MoM.

Oh, I see. Yeppers, agree completely.

Quote:I liked the movie well enough on first viewing, but then again, I also rejoiced ROTK on first viewing and now, because of that movie, I can't stand to watch ANY of the LOTR movies.

Really? Why not?

Dixie Wrote:I will be buying it so I'm hoping pretty hard that they will have an extended version or something with some of the deleted scenes. It's part of the set and I like to have them in sets - heck, I even bought Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (which has never actually been watched in my house *chuckle*)

I would find it entirely suspect if they did not release an extended edition of this movie. The previous releases have always been theatrical cut, followed a few months later with an extended edition. My money is held firmly in my Scottish fist until that extended edition comes out.

I'll be purchasing it, not because I thought this movie is worthy of being watched again and again, but to complete my collection of this particular series. Perhaps my future children will find more fun in this film than I have.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#19
Wait? They have extended editions of these movies? Where have I been? If they do this with OotP, then I will happily wait for the EE.



Rob Roy Wrote:Really? Why not?

Oh, don't get me started. Let's just say there was a line, it was finally crossed in that movie, and it just ruined everything for me.
Sheldon: I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.

~ The Big Bang Theory
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#20
GamgeeFest Wrote:Wait? They have extended editions of these movies? Where have I been? If they do this with OotP, then I will happily wait for the EE.

Maybe I'm using the wrong term. There are two-disk versions of each movie. I don't know that there is anything extended in the DVDs themselves.

Quote:Oh, don't get me started. Let's just say there was a line, it was finally crossed in that movie, and it just ruined everything for me.

ROFL. Alright, I won't get you started. My philosophy going in, and having been on the forums years prior to Fellowship's release was that anything could go, and often did. I still enjoyed this particular version, even through my disappoint of Gimli.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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