May be of more interest to Herc fans than X fans
#1
Interesting discussion of X "jumping the shark" over at EI

http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=44080

Cheers!
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#2
Well,for me,XWP began to take a nosedive when TPTB created the rift between Xena & Gabby. Granted,Xena was used to create a bit of a rift between Herc & Iolaus(which Sorbo didn't care for,I might add)but in their case,the bond they shared was stronger than the rift and they were able to resolve everything. With Xena & Gabby,it was different. The rift caused Gabby to do things she would not have ordinarily done. Once the rift was resolved,things just didn't seem the same between them anymore-and don't get me started on that 25 year time gap! That was the craziest idea they ever had! After that,it just didn't make sense any more. Themis,I agree with your comment over at exisle about not doing a Herc or Xena movie for some time-you're right about characters having to be recast (one for very obvious reasons). I would simply prefer to remember the Herc show I loved from the start. As for Xena,well,I'll just remember the first couple of seasons(and the two eps Kevin did)-the rest of it doesn't really exist as far as I'm concerned.
Rhonda
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Kevin-#1
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#3
Yeah I'd read this artcle already. I don't really agree with it - I don't think Xena ever jumped for me. It reached its peak in the middle of season 2, but I always found the quality of episodes inconsistent. There were far worse epsiodes before Fallen Angel and after it. And I must admit I liked Married with Fishsticks. It was badly positioned right in the middle of the twilight arc, but I enjoyed it for what it was.
Xev, Xev of B3K, join us in our song!
After all, a thousand years isn't very long!
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#4
For me it was the Indian episodes. But yeah, the whole - Gaby-Hope-Dahak thing... Actually almost of the non-Olympian religion business. Most of my discussion is over at EI though. One of the main things I enjoyed about the show was that it shared the same world and mythos and supporting characters as Herc, and it got further and further from that, finally killing off the Greek gods. Bringing Dahak and "the Light" into Herc from Xena wasn't my favorite thing either, but it did give Michael and especially Kevin some great acting opportunties (Michael had a lot of those outside of Herc but it gave Kevin some of his best in the series, and he took full advantage). The 25-year jump to give Xena a grown-up daughter was bounding over the shark! Plus I didn't care for the actress, who seemed just too skinny for me... Plus Eve's character rhymed with witch... She did get rid of Joxer so she did one thing right (sorry, Joxer fans), but by 25 years in the future, he wasn't traveling around being Joxer the Mighty anyway... Perhaps we Herc fans should be glad tptb seemed to be spending more "creative" energy over at Xena and didn't tamper with what worked on Herc!
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#5
gemini0521 Wrote:Well,for me,XWP began to take a nosedive when TPTB created the rift between Xena & Gabby. Granted,Xena was used to create a bit of a rift between Herc & Iolaus(which Sorbo didn't care for,I might add)but in their case,the bond they shared was stronger than the rift and they were able to resolve everything. With Xena & Gabby,it was different. The rift caused Gabby to do things she would not have ordinarily done. Once the rift was resolved,things just didn't seem the same between them anymore

I agree 100% with everything you said.
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#6
Themis,I agree with you about the Dahak thing-that wasn't my favorite,either,but Michael & Kevin did some of their best work(Kevin,in particular)in that arc of episodes! I've often thought that the episodes would have been more effective if Xena & Gabby had shown up somewhere along the way to explain their involvement in Dahak's rebirth. Oh,I know,that might have resulted in a rift of sorts between Hercules & Xena and perhaps Gabby,too-a rift that would not have been easy to repair.
Rhonda
member,OIKSFC
Kevin-#1
"what the world needs now is love"
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#7
Themis Wrote:Interesting discussion of X "jumping the shark" over at EI

http://www.exisle.net/mb/index.php?showtopic=44080

Cheers!

WOW, and I thought we had lengthy, deep discussions around here on the same topics!? That there on exisle is definitely the most intense convo on this subject that I've seen anyplace! Yerp, I agree on a lot of points, disagree on others, but I'm glad people are STILL talking about Herk and Xena after all these years. Plus the discussion points up a lot of things that are making me go, "Hmm, yeah, you're right...yes, I see what you mean...huh, never thought of it quite that way....etc."
And I'm not even finished reading yet! Smile
:coffee:Lady Aeolusia

Iolaus' Amazon Forever :jester:

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#8
That kind of discussion isn't infrequent over there. This one was sparked by a magazine article, and those wonderful British sci-fi mags I don't really search out any more since they don't cover anything Herc or Kevin or Drom any more and there's no big book store near me that carries them... DO read the entries KRAD links to - really good. Some of us here met KRAD at one of the Tulsa fests. I'm glad the shows are being discussed to - and that while it started as a discussion of Xena, it seems hard for people not to bring up Herc! Wish they were airing someplace now - time to expose a new generation! (X may still be on Oxygen..)
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#9
X is still on Oxygen(or was the last time I checked). Another thing that gets me about Xena as it relates to merchandise is the fact that there have only been three Hercules trading card sets made,not counting the Animated set(I know-I have them)and no less than a dozen Xena sets, including the newest one"Dangerous Liasions"due out next week. The only good thing about the Xena sets is that they do include some Herc cards. That's the only reason I pre-ordered the DL set. My point is why weren't more Herc sets made?At least four of those X sets were specific subject sets(Arts & Images,Beauty & Brawn,The Quotable Xena & the new DL set). I think there should have been a Quotable Hercules set. Just another example of Herc playing second banana to X.
Rhonda
member,OIKSFC
Kevin-#1
"what the world needs now is love"
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#10
I'm sure the people who make the cards would cite sales figures for the lack of Herc merch in general. I've always cited design as a factor in why some Herc stuff didn't sell. But that's all ancient history. Of cource Creation gave up their Herc license but they still manage to put on successful Xena cons every January, though they've moved from Pasadena to the hotel in Burbank so attendance may be down a little. If something doesn't sell like they want it to, they aren't going to make more. Obviously X stuff still sells.
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#11
Themis Wrote:That kind of discussion isn't infrequent over there.

Hmmm, maybe I should consider subbing on, since there do seem to be intelligent people over there...such as yourself!!...and not all kids, teens, etc. I am technically a member over at the Xena Online Community but I dunno, they aren't so friendly & openly communicative with me, maybe for that very reason, too many kids. I was never able to get a really active conversation going. Well, another reason may be that it is understandably a huge group. Still another reason I felt sort of like a 'fifth wheel' at times was that while I feel strongly about Xena, Gabs, Ares, etc. I feel even more strongly about Herk and you-know-who <wink, wink> BUT on the XOC they don't want to bring up Herk and company, certainly not with somebody who goes by the ID "Golden Huntress"....and has a handmade sig icon featuring a pair of beautiful blue-gray eyes under a shock of blond hair... The first version I made up was animated, with a shooting star in it, and I was told gently by the listmod (I think it was) that I should use something else, as it was not only causing longer downloads for some users, but it was also "distracting"! I'm not sure just what she meant by that...but anyway, I took it in good humor as I'm sure she meant it that way.

Quote:
This one was sparked by a magazine article, and those wonderful British sci-fi mags I don't really search out any more since they don't cover anything Herc or Kevin or Drom any more and there's no big book store near me that carries them... DO read the entries KRAD links to - really good.

What does KRAD stand for? Just idly wondering...:halo:

Quote:
Some of us here met KRAD at one of the Tulsa fests. I'm glad the shows are being discussed to - and that while it started as a discussion of Xena, it seems hard for people not to bring up Herc! Wish they were airing someplace now - time to expose a new generation! (X may still be on Oxygen..)

I'm proud to own all of the Herk AND the Xena DVDs, but like you I wish that we could do more to 'expose a new generation.' I'm happy that there are those on our forum right here that are getting a thrill out of their first exposure... Heart

I was thinking just yesterday, too, that while so many good Hercules-Iolaus websites are going (or, more correctly, have already gone) bye-bye, I characteristically hang on stubbornly to what I love best, and I wonder if someday my little (but growing!) site will become one of the 'last bastions' that remain standing when so many others have fallen under the fickleness of changing times and tastes...:wink:
:coffee:Lady Aeolusia

Iolaus' Amazon Forever :jester:

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#12
gemini0521 Wrote:Herc playing second banana to X.

Well, we all know it comes down to MONEY, what sells, what doesn't, for the gods only know what specific reasons! (aside from the relationship between Lawless & Tapert). And I can't help wondering whether today's continuing interest in Xena is b/c the "slashy" thing is so much in vogue, and there are a lot of people who insist that Xena and Gabby were lesbians. I never could see that (maybe b/c I just simply refused to see it Rolleyes ), I realize there were a few 'moments' but any pair of close friends can get a little carried away sometimes w/o meaning anything 'subtexty' by it....such as the dance in "A Tale of Two Muses" to cite just one instance. The episode most people hold up as 'proof' is "A Day In the Life" (isn't it?) where the gals were nekkid in that steaming pool and Gabs massaged Xena's shoulders. Or maybe that was "In Sickness and In Hell", I'm not sure.

And yeah, while I'm on the topic, I did think the Season 6 finale was a wretched mess in some ways. That part of "A Friend In Need" where Xena appears to be going into that pool to get crazy with the young Chinese girl she had befriended....I can't argue that it did look like a lesbian kind of interlude. But some of us agree that the PTB made a mess of the finale, so if we want to ignore the whole thing, we can certainly ignore certain details along with the rest.Confusedo:

Come to think, if slash is one reason for the loyalty of some Xena fans, it must not be nearly so big of a 'question' concerning HerK and Iolaus....although, I know there is that 'camp' in existence out there.....

OK, finished rambling and ranting now! :laugh:
:coffee:Lady Aeolusia

Iolaus' Amazon Forever :jester:

Visit my website at:

http://gardenofdreams.50webs.com/index.html










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#13
Just checked out Kevin's tv schedule on tv-now.com and Xena is no longer on Oxygen. They used to list Xena on his schedule because of the shows he did on her show. So, I guess its no longer on tv.
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#14
X will be back on in September of this year.
Shait
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#15
Lady Aeolusia Wrote:Hmmm, maybe I should consider subbing on, since there do seem to be intelligent people over there...such as yourself!!...and not all kids, teens, etc.

What does KRAD stand for?

OK, EI - not really a favorite subject around these boards because a lot of Drom fans there really blasted Kevin Sorbo for his supposed ruination of the show in his Exec Producer capacity (Jill Sherwin's book pretty much lays the problems on Tribune and budget...). I personally enjoy it for one-stop-shopping - there are discussions of most genre shows and some non-genre (House, NCIS...), plus forums on consumer tech, the world, politics, etc. Digital Man is a Xena fan as is obvious from his avatar and posts lots of Lucy news. Few kids, lots of college students, writers, people with knowledge in all sorts of fields. Not Kevin friendly due to perceptions about Drom. (The board sprang from a Drom board which was shut down amongs some internal controversy I didn't understand) Michael is respected from his Herc work. I just thought the particular thread I referenced would be of interest over here.

KRAD is Keith R.A. DeCandido, an author of a jillion tie-in books, mostly Trek, one Drom pre-Dylan (and very good), a couple of Young Herc and many others and a knowledgeable and fun guy.

I've read a little Herc/Iolaus slash - knew where to find it but didn't care to read it. Both characters (and actors!) were "flaming heterosexuals" to quote Kevin.

Quote:I realize there were a few 'moments' but any pair of close friends can get a little carried away sometimes w/o meaning anything 'subtexty' by it

Absolutely. But I guess a certain audience was starving for a show to relate to and tptb never discouraged the speculation.

The discussion about slavery in ancient Greece in the thread is a tangent but an interesting one! Ilex (sp?) ordered a Kevin tv show from me - she teaches Egyptian history!

I don't come to this particular board often enough since Herc is now nostalgia, but this is where birthday threads are and the occasional new member discovering the show pops up. I will own all the Xena dvd's any day because I ordered them from the 2-for-1 sale. I hope you got your Herc sets from Best Buy as they had exclusive interview content - especially Season 1. If you didn't, and have a Best Buy in the area, I think Season 1 is pretty cheap now when it's in stock.
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#16
I did the buy 1 get 1 free from DeepDiscount of all of herc, xena and highlander and I got bset buy versions of seasons 3 and 5 of herc, seasons 2 of 5 of highlander and seasons 3 thru 6 of xena. They were all advertised as regular editions, Ithink, works for me...free bonus features...my season 1 also has a featurette on disc 3 with interviews with kevin, michael and the director of amazon women/underworld and a long interview iwth kevin and the director. That feature isn't on the set that TVShowsonDVD reviewed...but that box also doesn't say its a bestbuy version though.
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#17
I have that interview on my region 2 set but not my region 1 version. Perhaps it was a later addition?
Xev, Xev of B3K, join us in our song!
After all, a thousand years isn't very long!
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#18
tjguitar Wrote:my season 1 also has a featurette on disc 3 with interviews with kevin, michael and the director of amazon women/underworld and a long interview iwth kevin and the director. That feature isn't on the set that TVShowsonDVD reviewed...but that box also doesn't say its a bestbuy version though.

Interesting. When they first came out, the first season had a "Best Buy Exclusive" that was over an hour of that titled "The Men Behind the Myth." Perhaps there was a time period to the exclusivity? Is this what you're referring to??
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#19
Yes that is the featurette I am referring to "The Men Behind the Myth" but the box does not advertise itself as a Best Buy Edition
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#20
Missed this post earlier...

Themis Wrote:OK, EI - not really a favorite subject around these boards because a lot of Drom fans there really blasted Kevin Sorbo for his supposed ruination of the show in his Exec Producer capacity (Jill Sherwin's book pretty much lays the problems on Tribune and budget...).

Yeh well, she is probably right, as I can't envision Kevin ruining anything!! Those Drom fans, ouch... Personally I never got heavily into that show partly due to the outer spacey setting which I just wasn't terribly fond of, and the time of the broadcast of the show was always a problem for me too (conflicting with work hours).

Quote: I personally enjoy it for one-stop-shopping - there are discussions of most genre shows and some non-genre (House, NCIS...), plus forums on consumer tech, the world, politics, etc. Digital Man is a Xena fan as is obvious from his avatar and posts lots of Lucy news. Few kids, lots of college students, writers, people with knowledge in all sorts of fields.


That's something that would attract me, the lack of teenagers on the board...not that I have anything against teens (I work with them every day at my job, where they hire more teens than anyone) but it's nice to get among adults who are in my own age bracket. And as I'm also a writer, that's another cool thing.

Quote:Not Kevin friendly due to perceptions about Drom. (The board sprang from a Drom board which was shut down amongs some internal controversy I didn't understand) Michael is respected from his Herc work. I just thought the particular thread I referenced would be of interest over here.

And it most certainly has been! :tongue:

Quote:KRAD is Keith R.A. DeCandido, an author of a jillion tie-in books, mostly Trek, one Drom pre-Dylan (and very good), a couple of Young Herc and many others and a knowledgeable and fun guy.

Kewl, it will be fun (and hopefully, enlightening) chatting with him.

Quote:I've read a little Herc/Iolaus slash - knew where to find it but didn't care to read it. Both characters (and actors!) were "flaming heterosexuals" to quote Kevin.

GOOD!!! Nice to know...for personal reasons (some of which you can guess, from what I've said around this board). I just never could understand the excessive taste for slash among some people. Like, two obviously ordinary 'very manly men' (a phrase I've used before) can't show affection for each other w/o being construed as gay. Then the homosexual element (and anyone around here who might have those tendencies, kindly forgive me but I am also a 'flaming het' sort of gal!) immediately pounces on that. The Xena eps kind of let it get into areas a bit more...questionable...but still, I dunno, I guess you could call me a "Christian Xenite", LOL, which is a group I've heard of out there but never investigated.

<snipped?>

Quote:Absolutely. But I guess a certain audience was starving for a show to relate to and tptb never discouraged the speculation.


The discussion about slavery in ancient Greece in the thread is a tangent but an interesting one! Ilex (sp?) ordered a Kevin tv show from me - she teaches Egyptian history!

OOOhh, now there's another interesting topic, the ancient slavery issue. I definitely need to finish reading that thread, as I have that very subject coming up in a future novel of mine. NO salt mines!...but, rather, slavery in upperclass households. 'Twill be during a section set in Italy so that it will have to do with Roman views on slavery. But, whatever...that's for later.


Quote:I don't come to this particular board often enough since Herc is now nostalgia, but this is where birthday threads are and the occasional new member discovering the show pops up. I will own all the Xena dvd's any day because I ordered them from the 2-for-1 sale. I hope you got your Herc sets from Best Buy as they had exclusive interview content - especially Season 1. If you didn't, and have a Best Buy in the area, I think Season 1 is pretty cheap now when it's in stock.

Yes, as I remember, I got all of my Herk DVDs from Best Buy. I think the only sets I got from anywhere else were maybe Season 1 and possibly 2 of Xena, and those came from Deep Discount.
:coffee:Lady Aeolusia

Iolaus' Amazon Forever :jester:

Visit my website at:

http://gardenofdreams.50webs.com/index.html










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