Only 7 humanoid models exist.
#1
I read on the BSG site that some models of Cylon are ships. Then the four classes of ship we've seen: base ship, resurrection ship, raider and heavy raider are all sentient ships as in Andromeda. That tracks because the Cylons are so cybernetic themselves it would be natural to build sentient ships with personalities. The centurions are another model. The line about all Cylons resurrecting also flies here. If you blow up a base ship and another one is built they probably download the experiences and aquired knowledge of the first ship into a new one as with raiders or centurions. Resurrecton is the birthright of all Cylons. Take the four ships and the centurions as models and you have only seven human appearing ones to look for. Not all have to have "many copies" so even Baltar could be a "one-off" purpose built cylon, but he'd have to have been cloned off the adult Baltar and substituted when he was an adult.

-Ray
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#2
Possible 3.05 spoiler
If you haven't seen tonight's episode, you might not want to read this.

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When Six was talking to Baltar tonight on the base ship, he asked her about the other 5 models. She refused to give him any information, saying something like "We don't talk about them... EVER"

So, while your theory is sound, it seems like according to tonight's episode, there may very well be 5 other skin jobs.
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#3
OK, 1) While its great that this show has got you thinking about the possibilities, it seems a little far-fetched. And i dont mean its unbelievable cuz its too out there. Rather its because its too dull. Those remaining cylons are excellent plot devices for the writers. Hell, we havent even seen them (presumably), and already it adds to the mystery of the show! But if it was as simple as every type of cylon ship is another model...i dunno, that just seems like their wasting a huge opportunity later on. I dont even know if the hybrid counts as one of them. Im thinking, perhaps they were the FIRST skinjobs, horrible deformities. They would be abomonations(sp?) to God, illiciting Caprica's response. Or perhaps they rebelled against the Cylon establishment. Hell, for all we know, the series might end with the Old Man turning out to be the last model!

But yeah, thats one question thats plaguing me, one that is prompting me to bittorrent this episode and watch it again: WAS the hybrid actually considered one of the cylon models? Or is it something different? Even tho its connected to the ship, it IS the ship, i dunno...the way the other skinjobs talked about it, it was as though they considered the hybrid seperate from them. Remember what Diana said: The hybrid doesnt get a vote. If it was one of them, i should think, with all of the cylon's ideals, they should give her a voice same as any. Personally, I think she (the hybrid) represents the "missing link" between the Centurions and old-style cylons (from the previous war) and the new human-like models.
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#4
The skin-jobs, though, have recognized that Baltar will do or say anything to save his own skin.

Even if that means strangling a dying Six model. Now, that was a piece of irony, wasn't it? Lab Rat Baltar soiling his hands with common blood work?

And he lied about the gizmo he found aboard the Base Star. Why? To avoid blame for leading them to oblivion? Or wil he use it as an angle to escape the noose once more?
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#5
Look, the theory that there are a total of 12 cylon models and these include the various ships and centruians has been around for awhile, but the words of Six to Baltar from the first installments of this story onward do not support that theory.

< spoiler if you have not seen the latest episode >

Baltar was told by Six about the Cylon manner of perception, which she called "Projection", whereby the Cylon see their surroundings as the choose to see them. They were standing in a corridor or hallway of the Bay Star, but she was seeing her surroundings as forrest.

Baltar then notes that he does something so similar with her ...... in the first season, he was always seeing himself and Head Six in his house on Caprica; now he is seeing himself with Head Six on a sea or lake shore. He finds it odd that he seems to be "Projecting", as Six tells him Cylons do, and asks if he is a Cylon, one of the Models he has not yet seen.

Baltar plainly states that during the Occupation he has seen copies of only Seven Models, and asks about the remaining Five he has never seen. He is told that the Seven never discuss them, EVER. He is NOT told if he is one, but again and again he is called "Human" by various cylons.

Remember, he goes to the diseased Base Star because he is HUMAN and cannot be affected by the virus or illness. He takes a Colonial ship {on auto pilot - he can't fly it} because a Cylon ship would also be affected.

Now, what we've learned unless we {and Baltar} are being frakked with is:

Yes, the Cylon ships are alive. The Base Star's central control or "computer" is a "hybrid" which lives in a tank and babbles nonsense { or, is it ?}, connected to the rest of the ship by both inorganic and biological means. But the Base Star's "being", "a hybrid", does not vote and is NOT one of the 12 models; presumably, neither are the other kinds of sentient Cylon ships considered "skin job" models. Sentient, but not voting members of the Cylon collective. The twleve models are all "skin jobs", not ships or centurians.

Baltar's vivid imagination of Head Six and pleasant surroundings is a Cylon ability. Yet, they call him "Human" and he is sent to the Base Star as being supposedly immune to the disease affecting the Cylons there. When he questions Six about her ability to recoginze the "missing 5" models, she refuses to give any information. Head Six calls herself "an angel from God" sent to Baltar.

So: We are being given mixed signels about Baltar. He has the Cylon "Projection" ability. Yet the Seven Models call him Human, he is immune to the disease {note: He did go to the diseased Base Star suited up and did not remove that suit}, and his survival among the Cylon is based upon their voting to keep this Human alive among them.

As for "The Old Man being the last model": The writers can make the story go where they will. But Lee and Zack were his sons, and unless they are Cylons or hybrids too, that just doesn't fly, does it.
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#6
I am grateful for the very clear signal the writers gave us, via Three, WRT the hybrid: "She doesn't get a vote."
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#7
A lot of interesting information was revealed in this episode.

About the remaining five models that the Cylons don't speak of, I see a couple of possibilities:

1. They were boxed because they turned out to be defective or insane or refused to align themselves with the goals of the other Cylons. If this is true, some of the surviving "rejected" models may be hiding out in the human community and may indeed be among some of the cast members we've seen that are presumed to be human.

2. They remained on the Cylon home world because they wanted no part of the attack on Caprica and the other colonies. Perhaps our seven models are the "rejected" ones. They were exiled or chose exile as an alternative to boxing by the five models now controlling the Cylon home world. The seven are considered renegades or criminals by the rest of their own kind. Perhaps the monotheistic religion of the seven models is not shared by the other five models. The other five may not agree with the plan of the seven to reproduce by interbreeding with humans. Since the seven have split off from the rest of their kind, they may not be able to return home; hence their plan to find Earth and make it their new home.

2.1 There may even have been a war back on the Cylon home world between the Five and the Seven that resulted in the annihilation of the Five and the destruction or devastation of the home world making it uninhabitable even for Cylons. It was revealed in the beginning of the series that the humanoid Cylons are vulnerable to a certain type of radiation. If in the War of the Five Vs. the Seven one or both of the opposing sides used this radiation as a weapon, the Cylon world may now be blanketed with it and unable to support Cylon life. Perhaps the Seven never speak of the Five because they were responsible for poisoning the Cylon home world and therefore have become so abominable in the eyes of the suviving models that they are not ever to be mentioned, or if the Seven did it, they may consider the sacrifice of the Five something necessary but so tragic (and perhaps shameful) that they abhor speaking of them. Maybe some Five models though still survive, unknown to the remaining Seven?

2.2 If theory 2.2 is not correct and there was no Cylon civil war, then the remaining Five Cylons still occupy the Cylon home world and may show up at some time in the future. They may even infiltrate the human community. And who's to say the Five didn't create more models after the exit of the Seven that the Seven don't know about?

The second possibility (2) is the one I am endorsing. (I'm undecided about 2.1 and 2.2 but am leaning strongly towards 2.1). It makes a great deal of sense in terms of how the series has unfolded.

Of course this means I will have to give up the idea of Dee being a Cylon, since she is obviously not one of the Seven. Dee probably can't be working with the seven known Cylon models if what Six said to Baltar about "we never speak of them, ever" is true. That remark strongly suggests some kind of separation occurred in the past between the Five and the Seven.
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#8
SixOfTwelve,

I really like your theories about the 7 being renegades, or the 5 being the renegades. The idea of a legitimate split between the cylons would open up a lot of new story possibilities, and would make any new cylon reveals to be something else beside the standard "look who's a cylon! They're a spy!"

It'd be a nice change of pace.
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#9
Quote:1. They were boxed because they turned out to be defective or insane or refused to align themselves with the goals of the other Cylons. If this is true, some of the surviving "rejected" models may be hiding out in the human community and may indeed be among some of the cast members we've seen that are presumed to be human.

If 1 is true, then there could be Cylon in the human population. Perhaps the planted Cylon's, Doral, Sharon, Gina and D'Anna were looking for the runaway renegades in the Fleet because they knew of their disloyalty to the Cylon purpose. But they could not be any known characters because they would be identified by now.
"And we believe in the one true god and Baltar is his prophet.."

So say we all!
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#10
ItasianInvasion Wrote:SixOfTwelve,

I really like your theories about the 7 being renegades, or the 5 being the renegades. The idea of a legitimate split between the cylons would open up a lot of new story possibilities, and would make any new cylon reveals to be something else beside the standard "look who's a cylon! They're a spy!"

It'd be a nice change of pace.

Yes - if the remaining skin jobs are not part of The Plan, then *everybody* is back on the table in my book, because we have no idea what their motivations are.

However. . . we also know disagreement among The Seven is a new concept to them, right? How does one rectify that with this schism between the skin job factions? I suppose it could be argued that disagreement is unknown just among the seven, but if they already fought the five, disagreeing with somebody shouldn't be such a shocking event. Unless they are worried that they already lost five, and are about to fragment further.
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#11
dgroove Wrote:However. . . we also know disagreement among The Seven is a new concept to them, right? How does one rectify that with this schism between the skin job factions? I suppose it could be argued that disagreement is unknown just among the seven, but if they already fought the five, disagreeing with somebody shouldn't be such a shocking event. Unless they are worried that they already lost five, and are about to fragment further.

Maybe it isn't disagreement that is new to them, but the difficulty or flat-out inability to reach consensus.

I have wondered if all twevle models didn't carry distinct and necessary characteristics, in this respect, and if this schism hasn't resultingly weakened their ability to make decisions. They aren't, well, playing with a full deck.
Custos inferior narrati
The essence is all one.
I may be mad, but that doesn't mean I'm not right.
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