Mistakes or just weird
#1
I found some weird things out in HP tell me what u think of them
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#2
what do u think of the wand waving, they started out having to wave there wand in a certain way but now they just point it and say some word.
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#3
Also the dada job is cursed isnt it. so why did quirrel have the job for longer than a year. When Harry asks percy who quirrel is talking to. percy says its snape and he teaches potions but everyone nos he wonts quirrels job, he's been after it for years?
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#4
Fred Steve Wrote:Also the dada job is cursed isnt it. so why did quirrel have the job for longer than a year. When Harry asks percy who quirrel is talking to. percy says its snape and he teaches potions but everyone nos he wonts quirrels job, he's been after it for years?


i think he meant that snape wanted quirrels job for years but only one of the years quirel was actually a prof
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#5
Fred Steve Wrote:what do u think of the wand waving, they started out having to wave there wand in a certain way but now they just point it and say some word.

I think the wave wanding is only required for particular spells. It may also not be necessary at all as the power of the magic-user increases with experience. Recall that some spells can be said in the mind only, without the need for verbalization.

ginny weasley Wrote:i think he meant that snape wanted quirrels job for years but only one of the years quirel was actually a prof

I agree. I believe that while the statement can be read a number of ways, the correct interpretation is that Snape has wanted the DADA position for years, which Quirrell now holds.

However, we could speculate in the other direction and say that since the DADA position was cursed by Voldemort, and that Quirrell was acting as a surrogate for Voldemort, that the curse did not effect him, or at least did not effect him in the same fashion.

But IIRC (DHTBWM) Dumbledore confirms that each teacher since Voldemort requested the job, had lasted less than a year.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#6
Yeah DD said that they hadnt kept a teacher for longer than a year in the DADA so it has to be that Snape wanted the job but Quirrle just had it that particular year.

But then what else did he teach before that. Since Hagrid already new him in the leaky couldren he must have been a teacher. I cant really see Quirrle teaching anything else. Also he went to the "Black Forest" but to hunt vampires the year before that. Isnt the "Black Forest" the Forbbiden Forest in another version of the book.

Also Percy allready new that he teached DADA.
"Who is this guy"
"Tank Man? does that sound right? Tank man?"
"Here comes Tank Man, just tankin around town."
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#7
that was all in the movie right? not exactly in the book
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#8
nah i checked in the book just now. its all in the book
"Who is this guy"
"Tank Man? does that sound right? Tank man?"
"Here comes Tank Man, just tankin around town."
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#9
Goodness! "The Black Forest" is a different forest from the Forbidden Forest in Hogwarts! The Black Forest is in Europe, and is a real place; Bavaria/ Germany. Famous for its coo-coo clocks, is it not? Anyway, The Black Forest is real, while Hogwarts and its Forbidden Forest exists only in Potterverse. Quirrel did not take a year off to travel in Hogwarts' Forbidden Forest, he went to Europe .... and met up with VaporMort. We can be certain that is what effected such a change in his character, not an encounter with a Hag or a Vampire ........ no matter what Hagrid thought!

This issue of Quirrel's teaching DADA may be an error indeed; that is, that JKR says there is a curse on the DADA teaching position, and that no one has held that post for more than one year since LV {Tom Riddle} requested the job and was refused ... yet we seem to see Quirrel as a returning teacher at Hogwarts, and he is the DADA teacher ..... seems to be a conflict of information here, for if no DADA teacher lasts more than one year, Quirrel can't be returning for a second year in a row for this post.

Yet it does not have to be so {an error}.

Yes, Hagrid knew Quirrel as a Hogwart's teacher when he and Harry met him in the Leaky Cauldren just before the start of Harry's first term. And, Hagrid introduced him as the DADA teacher for the up-coming year. However, that does not mean Quirrel was teaching DADA for a second year.

We are indeed told that Quirrel had taken a year off to travel. Therefore, he might have been DADA teacher for a year, took a year off and traveled abroad; and was now {at Harry/Hagrid's meeting} returning for his second year of teaching. That would mean, he had not taught the DADA class two years running, and that alone would "technically" make the statement correct, that no one had held the post more than a year {consecutivly}.

But there is no reason to assume Quirrel could not have held some other postion other than DADA when he had taught before. JKR doesn't tell us, but there is no reason to assume it could not be so. After all, we're told Snape wants the DADA post, but he is Potions master, and a good one .......... if Snape can aspire to change posts, there is no reason to assume Quirrel couldn't have done, as well. And while we have no information as to what that other posting he held might have been, there is no reason to assume he had no other talent. Another teacher might have taken a year off the year prior to Quirrel's own travels, while Quirrel spent his first year teaching in that position {whatever it might be}. We are told Quirrel had a brillient mind.

What interests me most about this whole issue .... the DADA "curse" .... is not Quirrel, but Snape.

We are repeatedly told by various students that Snape wants the DADA position. Each year the DADA teacher meets an unhappy fate and a new DADA teacher emerges. Finally Dumbledore himself tells Harry about LV and his application for the DADA post and the "curse" on the position since Dumbledore refused to hire LV. And we've seen Snapes' repeated application for the job, and annual rejection.

Now of course the issue of Snape and his character ....... who does he serve, what side is Snape really on ? ..... is an on-going issue. His character is complex, ambiguous ........... and at the close of Book 6, he {appears to} kill Dumbledore, in Harry's presence.

The DADA curse claims Snape too, and not only will he not teach DADA for the second year, he loses his post at Hogwarts altogehter.

Question: Why did Dumbledore finally give Snape the DADA post, for that year, as Dumbledore himself acknowledged the curse? What does his giving the DADA post to Snape at the outset of that year {knowing of the curse, knowing Snape will not last past that year in the post ..........} mean? What made D do this, give Snape the post at long last ............?
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#10
Darq Ali Wrote:Question: Why did Dumbledore finally give Snape the DADA post, for that year, as Dumbledore himself acknowledged the curse? What does his giving the DADA post to Snape at the outset of that year {knowing of the curse, knowing Snape will not last past that year in the post ..........} mean? What made D do this, give Snape the post at long last ............?

An excellent analysis and a very good question. First, why didn't Dumbledore give Snape the position to begin with? I believe DD kept Snape out, and Snape kept trying to get in, to maintain the illusion that Snape was not on Dumbledore's side, and/or that Dumbledore did not wholly trust Snape.

Why did Dumbledore give Snape the position that year? Dumbledore seemed to know, through the entire year, roughly what was going to happen (my wife speculates that Dumbledore has the power of precognition). Clearly, Snape and Dumbledore had discussed the potential that the headmaster would not finish the entire year at Hogwarts. Since events are moving at quite a clip, it seems that Dumbledore knew something of what was going on, and positioned Snape to his best advantage.

Dumbledore wasn't necessarily out to survive. He clearly is working for the common good. Thus, with his sacrifice, he furthers that cause. Snape is "revealed" as on the side of Lord Voldemort, and ingratiates himself into Voldemort's camp, he also puts to rest any current doubts, such as those voiced by Beatrix. It sets Snape up perfectly to strike at Voldemort when the time is best.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#11
I think you are correct.

D has always been working for the common good {as he sees it} and his post as Hogwart's Headmaster has been the place from which he could do the most good. He is out to serve the Wizarding World, not his own personel ends.

Snape was placed at Hogwarts as part of D's master plan, which is to move the Wizarding World forward, keep it safe, educate its young, and thwart the designs of LV, who D knew would return. All the long years since LV's fall, D has been working to understand why he fell, why he would eventually be back, learning of the knowledge the young T Riddle had of Horcrux and so on. [And rearing young Harry, of course.]

Snape had {by his own words} been sent to Hogwarts to seek employment as a spy for LV. By D's account, Snape "turned" prior to LV's fall.

Aside: thus we know that D's explaination to Harry as to why he trusted Snape is, at best, incomplete. D tells Harry that Snape was the person who overheard the Prophecy and reported it to LV, setting in motion the events that led to Harry being an orphan at LV's hand.

Snape was not employed at Hogwarts at that time. He was, like Sybil T {who made the prophecy}, at the point of applying for a Hogwarts' teaching post. He was in LV's employ, was a tatooed Death Eater, and when he over-heard the Prophecy {in part}, he reported it to LV.

We know from the Pensive scene that Snape had "turned" prior to LV's fall.

LV's fall was also the event that killed Harry's parents.

So Snape "turned" before his nemesis James Potter {and wife Lily} died. The event of their deaths at LV's hand, a consequence of his reporting the Prophecy {making baby Harry, who wasn't even born when the Prophecy was uttered a target} could not have been the event that caused Snape to "turn" on LV. He did so before LV attacked the Potters.

One might argue that LV let Snape {and other minions} know he was going after the Potters long before the night of the attack, and the knowledge that James' son was made a target by his report was enough to cause Snapes' defection from the Death Eater's camp. I doubt this. {LV doesn't seem to let many in on any of his plans, only their parts in them and only as they need to know.} There's a whole bunch JKR hasn't told us about Snape, with good reason, of course. It is the unanswered questions that makes us keep talking about her work and awaiting the next installment in the drama.

But I digress.

D put Snape at Hogwarts. He didn't give Snape the DADA post, because he wanted Snape there long-term, and D knew there really, really was a curse put on the post by LV himself. Putting Snape in as DADA prof would have been a short term-deal, not D's plan for Snape.

Perhaps LV sent Snape to apply for the DADA post itself, perhaps not. We don't have enough information on that. Maybe LV's order to Snape was, "get thee a position at Hogwarts so as to keep an eye on that most difficult of wizards, Dumbledore, and report whatever you can to me ......." regardless of what the post might be.

But suppose Snape was sent to get the DADA post by LV ....... perhaps, LV would think this fine, as he [LV] set the DADA curse. Perhaps he was in a position to "protect" his servant from the effects of the curse. And so, had a Snape working for LV been given the post, he might indeed have been unaffected by said curse, and lasted year after year {as he did at Potions}.

Trouble was, by D's account, Snape was not working for LV. If the curse would be inactive on a true LV minion, that fact would not have, in fact, protected a Snape who was, under the cover, a turncoat on LV who was in secret, Dumbledore's Man. So, D gave Snape the Potions post, not DADA.

I think Snape really, really did want the DADA post. He may have considered his wizarding skills such that he could have avoided the curse. Or, he may not have believed in the curse. Or, he may have really thought LV truly finished, so that it didn't matter. In any event, his emotion when he addresses Umbridge as she quizzes him on the matter {his annual re-application for the DADA post, his annual rebuff} seems very real, and very little else brings out hot response in the Ice King Snape! {just the memory of James Potter and his friends ...........}

So, why this last year is the DADA post Snape's at last? Because, as you suggest, D knew it was his own last year at Hogwart's. No need to keep Snape close year after year, when this is the last year. He may not have known the particulars. Only that he would be gone, so, time enugh to let Snape have the DADA post {freeing Potions for its' former Prof., the coming out of retirement Slughorn}. That Snape will then be leaving as well won't matter .... as you say, it puts Snape in good with LV, ends the doubts of LV himself {if he has any regarding Snape} and LV's other supporters; puts Snape in with LV, and in position to aid in The Cause.

Harry will have to learn if this is so, and come to trust in the aid Snape can give. Or, will learn when Snape sacrifices himself for The Cause, enabling Harry to finish the job Harry is bound to do .........

These books address The Big Questions about Life. Honor, Love and all that. Sacrifice. Choices, doing what is Right over chosing instead what is Easy.

Forgivness is one of the Big Issues. Snape has never forgiven James. Harry is set to never forgive Snape.

I hope these points are artfully addressed in this last book and I will be disappointed if they are not.

I wonder too about turning Our Hero into a killer.

I think about the Bell Jar of time {egg to bird to egg and back again} and the Baby Headed Death Eater.

Might one gather the Horcrux Soul Bits and re-make Tom Riddle as a baby wizard, and rear him with the love he never knew ........... not kill him? Redemption, rather than destruction? Hmmm. Harry's power that LV knows not is, after all, Love, not superior ability to kill other wizards.
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#12
Darq Ali Wrote:ISnape was not employed at Hogwarts at that time. He was, like Sybil T {who made the prophecy}, at the point of applying for a Hogwarts' teaching post. He was in LV's employ, was a tatooed Death Eater, and when he over-heard the Prophecy {in part}, he reported it to LV.

[snip]

So Snape "turned" before his nemesis James Potter {and wife Lily} died. The event of their deaths at LV's hand, a consequence of his reporting the Prophecy {making baby Harry, who wasn't even born when the Prophecy was uttered a target} could not have been the event that caused Snape to "turn" on LV. He did so before LV attacked the Potters.

I like to think that Snape was, all along, a good man at heart. He was, in some part, driven to Voldemort's side because of the way Potter, Sr., Black et.al. treated him. Anything that was in contrast to what they stood for would have been appealing to Snape, because he could, in part, get back at them for all the wrongs (real or imagined) they did to him.

Quote:Only that he would be gone, so, time enugh to let Snape have the DADA post {freeing Potions for its' former Prof., the coming out of retirement Slughorn}.

It also occurs to me that this might have been part of Dumbledore's plan as well. Certainly, he must have suspected Slughorn of providing information to Voldemort, and what that information was, would be tricky to get a hold on. Having Slughorn immediately available would make getting that information that much easier (as it were), which was clearly vital to Dumbledore and to Harry.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#13
Right.

Dumbledore understands Slughorn's character; that his head is turned by celebrity of any kind, and that Slughorn consistantly 'milks' any assoication with celebrity that he can.

A direct request from Dumbledore about what Slughorn might have told Tom Riddle re: Horcurx; and, any memory Slughorn might have regarding Tom's musings on the topic, would not meet with success. As, indeed, we saw: Slughorn gave D an 'edited' version of the memory.

Dumbledore correctly surmised that Slughorn would warm to Harry. Perhaps D was also aware of Slughorn's fond memories of a former favorite pupil, Harry's mother, Lily. In any event, D needed Slughorn to be at Hogwarts and in Harry's constant proximity.

I would imagine Slughorn could have taught something other than Potions. His performance at the opening of the books suggests Slughorn, himself, might have made a fair DADA prof, or perhaps Charms ... or, Transfiguration!

However, the necessary shuffeling of faculity might have been difficult, and even if really qualified, Slughorn might have balked at DADA, anyhow. In any event, Slughorn was retired from Potions, Snape was qualified for DADA and wanted the post, so of course, shifting Snape into DADA and putting Slughorn back in his old post at Potions made sense.

Getting Slughorn to come to Hogwarts was part of the master plan, to learn as much as could be gleaned from him about Tom Riddle's knowledge and intentions about Horcrux as possible.

BTW, I have still not figured out the proper way to say that word ... is the 'h' silent? How about the 'x'? ["or-CRU" ??] And what is the plural? I have been thinking it was the same as the singular, as adding "es" to an word ending in "x" is difficult. Or would it have been 'i' as in, 'a Horcrux' {singular}, ' six Horcruxi' {plural}? 'Horcruxes' looks funny to me. It could be, "or-CRU" and "or-CRUZ"? Or do we say the 'h' and the 'x'?

Anyway, giving Snape the DADA position at long last, if D knew it was the last year he {Dumbledore} would be at Hogwarts, made sense even if not necessary to bring in Slughorn. It ensured something would boot Snape out of Hogwarts, presumably into LV's arms .... and if Snape is trusted by LV, he is best positioned to help The Cause.

The problem, of course, if this is the plan, is that Dumbledore is dead and at the last we saw them, no one was thinking Snape was serving The Cause anymore. If the aid Snape can give is to be information, he'll have to deliver it anomyously, and then how will The Order know the intel is reliable? If the aid Snape could give is more physical in nature .... taking out key Death Eaters, he could work alone ...

I am of the mind Harry must learn some hard truths about Snape and come to understand, forgive and trust to recieve the aid Sanpe can offer. But there is a huge amount of ground to cover for that to happen, and there is that "Horcrux Scavenger Hunt" to get out of the way. Nice if the locket is in Grimould Place and the other three are at Hogwarts, but I don't see that as probable.

I also think we'll have to visit the Ministry of M. again, and that locked door where they study love - and The Death Room, with The Veil.

And yes, Snape will have a role to play. One way or the other.
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#14
there's another mistake I thought of,
you know how you can only see the winged horse things when you see someone die? Well didn't harry see his mother die when he was a baby?
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#15
I thought of that, too, and as it happens, JKR has answered that in an interview.

She said, Harry was a baby 'in his cot' {crib, in American terms} and didn't actually see either of his parents die. So, while his life had indeed experienced the loss by death of his parents, that didn't qualify as an experience that allowed him to see the Thestrals.

I found a worse mistake, however, which she also tried to explain away, and I just don't buy it: To me, it remains a mistake.

When the students leave school, the carriages take them back to the Hogwart's Express train, just as the carriages take them to the school, from the train as they arrive each fall for the new term.

Harry had seen Cedric die prior to the end of term, and the Thestrals certainly were pulling the carriages when the students left school. Yet, Harry didn't notice them then! Why on earth not?

JKR said, it was too soon after the experience; Harry had not had time to reflect, to "internalize" the experience. So, he didn't see the Thestrals until he came back to school for the fall term.

Right. Uh-huh. Sure.

Not buying it.

Thestrals got invented between the writing of the two books. Yes, you can explain away that Harry was a baby when his parents were killed, and was in his crib anyway so he "really didn't see death" at their murder, even though he was present. I would even buy that he did see it happen {at least, his mother's killing} but was too young to understand, so it didn't count, had she said that.

But if being a direct wittness to death, and old enough to comprehend, is the key to seeing Thestrals .......... Harry should have seen them when he departed Hogwarts at the close of that term, the event should not have waited for the following fall. Too bad JKR had not invented them yet.
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#16
As unlikely as it seems, perhaps Harry was too distraught to notice the Thestrals on the journey away from Hogwarts?
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#17
Hmmm.

Harry just didn't notice Thestrals, which he was suddenly capable of seeing {having wittnessed the death of Cedric} whereas before, he saw each time the erie sight of carriages appearantly moving by themselves .......

Right. O.K. Um-hummm. Sure, that would explain it.

But you see, that isn't what JKR said in her explaination, anyway.

She said, Harry still couldn't see Thestrals at the close of the Hogwart's term in 'Goblet of Fire', because, though Harry was at that point a wittness to death {the magical requirement to see Thestrals}, it was "too soon" after, and he had yet to "internalize" the event.

Uhhhhhh

Doesn't work for me.

Remember when the students are winging their way aboard Thestrals to London on their "mission to save Sirius", Ron is very upset riding his Thestral, and moans, 'This is mad ....Mad ... if I could just see it ..........'

'You'd better hope it stays invisible' said Harry darkly, in response.

If any of the group had fallen, they would have died, and then all there would have been able to see the Thestrals, is the meaning of that exchange. Harry had no doubt. Yet, we are to believe that he himself couldn't see them {yet} at the end of term the previous year,days after his up-close-and-personal view of Death when Cedric was A.K.'d before his very eyes in the graveyard.

Her explaination does not explain; this was a mistake in the construction of Potterverse. She wrote the rule {that those who have seen Death can see Thestrals} yet did not apply it to Harry.

Or, more likely, a deliberate choice, because, she wanted the Thestrals introduced in O of the Pheonix, at the outset, when she could do the issue justice, and there wasn't time to do the whole issue of this marvelous new species justice at the close of Goblet of Fire. And we just weren't supposed to notice.
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#18
Yes, you are right. My idea falls through. Mainly it falls through because of JKR's own explanation.
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#19
Yes. Point is, there are "errors" in the books, especially concerning ages and numbers of students and the like. It can be fun to spot them!

The error of Harry not being able to see Thestrals until Cedric's death needed explaining away ....... because he had been present at two deaths already, those of his parents!

Fine, she explains Harry was too young to understand "death" to begin with, and that he was present, but 'didn't really see, being a baby in his cot' anyhow.

We can buy that ......... but the business of his not seeing them at the close of term after Cedric's death .......... that is just plain an error, or oversight, or a convienent omission to make the story progress as JKR desires. It is internally inconsistant with what we're specifically told about Thestrals and human abilities to percieve them. No matter how JKR backpedals when confronted with this.

How many kids are in the school, the age of Ron's older brothers and Quidditch player Marcus Flint, and so on, are other murkey areas in which there are some real problems and errors, too.

Not to mention Lily Evans coming home from Hogwarts, 'her pockets full of frog spawn turning rats into teacups' {as Petunia says}. No, she didn't, or she had a large number of warnings from the M of Magic, right?
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#20
JK said somthin about why he cant see thestrals in the fourth (if i rember correctly). He couldnt see them because he didnt under stant death and didnt accept that hewas dead untill the holidays or somthing.

I also agree that it was a mistake but she has come up with some conveniant answeres.
"Who is this guy"
"Tank Man? does that sound right? Tank man?"
"Here comes Tank Man, just tankin around town."
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