snape is a good guy
#61
mike.lyon Wrote:HE'S PArT OF THE VOLDS GROUP

Restating the same contention is not proof.

mike.lyon Wrote:Snape is no good b/c he was brought up that way whether intinoally or not

So what you're saying is that because someone's parents, intentionally or not, don't bring up someone the "right way" then they must, by default be a bad person. I'll be certain to let the Child Protective Services know that the majority of their foster children are "no good."
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#62
Sweet (sarcasm)

what i meant is that he was probably raised a certain way and b/c of that he now is an idiot
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#63
mike.lyon Wrote:what i meant is that he was probably raised a certain way and b/c of that he now is an idiot

Interesting. Where have you come by this information? As far as I knew, we had very little regarding how he was raised, except that he was the titular Half-Blood Prince. If the nomiker was self-imposed . . . well, there it is. If it was not, but refers to his heritage . . . again, we don't have much to go on.

Regardless, I will contend with your notion that "he now is an idiot". He is a master of legilmancy, such that either Dumbledore, Voldemort or both could not penetrate his mind. He was also the master of potions and Defense against Dark Arts (or Dark Arts, if you prefer). He was a professor at Hogwarts, a senior staff member, head of the Slitherin house, and a member of the Order of the Phoenix.

If that's the definition of "an idiot" then may all my children be idiots!

None of which proves that Snape is a "bad guy".
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#64
Fine i think he is bad so there
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#65
mike.lyon Wrote:Fine i think he is bad so there

Yeah, I grasp that. But you've offered no proof. You haven't even offered a reason. I'm all for opinion, but, a "Is too" "Is not" argument defeats the purpose of a discussion.

If you have some evidence, implied or otherwise, kindly offer it.

If not, you're under no obligation to continue posting.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#66
I will look it up this weekend but is still think he si BAD!!
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#67
mike.lyon Wrote:I will look it up this weekend but is still think he si BAD!!

You're allowed to think that all you want. Stating it as fact, however, without any supporting evidence, does not make it convincing in the least.

I look forward to your offers of proof. :bg:
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#68
oh dont worry ill read the WHOLE series again this weekend
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#69
guys, I hope your not fighting about this, we are all entitled to have our own opinion. As what have Rob roy said we all dont have enough proofs to tell that he is on the bad side or good side. All we have is theory.

But still I do think that snape is on the good side, you see even siruis trust him,even if he only just do it because DD gave his trust to snape. Snape was very loyal to dumbledore for the last five books, he even save harry's life in the first book.
tazmanian devil
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#70
He Killed Dd!!!!!
I Can't Forgive Him For Doing That No Matter What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.................................................
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#71
ginny weasley Wrote:He Killed Dd!!!!!
I Can't Forgive Him For Doing That No Matter What!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And thus you make the exact argument why Snape may be one of the greatest heroes within Harry Potter. Consider if Snape, and I use the term if on purpose, is a good guy. No matter what he and Dumbledore may have worked out should the moment arrive where Snape must reveal himself one way or the other before the Deatheaters, no matter how the end of Voldemort plays out, no matter how many lives are saved by the one taken, Snape will forever and anon be known as He Who Killed Dumbledore.

There will be those few who will understand what he did. Who will understand the sacrifice that he paid of personal reputation, personal well-being, and risk to life and limb, just to overthrow the Dark Lord. But, as you wisely have pointed out, there will forever be the majority who will never grant, or only grudgingly grant to Snape what slight due he might actually deserve. The stigma of what he has done will forever over shadow anything he might do from here on out, and he will always be branded, even as if they had placed hot iron against his forehead, as He Who Killed Dumbledore.

There will not be a place that Snape can go in public but he will suffer derision, scorn and ridicule.

His sins, perceived or otherwise, will always, always, always over shadow any good that he has done or will now do.

Indeed, Dumbledore has given his all, and has died in the line of duty. Severus Snape has given as much, and must live in the line of duty, even as he serves those who will hate him forever and ever.Confusedad:

And, dear ginny weasley, if I may be so bold, perhaps you would consider reading this article on the use of the exclamation points. I mean no ill by it, just some excellent thoughts to consider.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#72
hey does n e body pay atenion to the fact he is employed under vold.


if was truly a good guy he would die for the order
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#73
mike.lyon Wrote:hey does n e body pay atenion to the fact he is employed under vold.


if was truly a good guy he would die for the order

Yes. I've spoken about this above. Clearly you've forgotten what I wrote. Go ahead and re-read my posts above, and then let me know if you have any other questions. I addressed this very thing, though I can go over it again if you're confused.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#74
thanks...
stillhe is NO GOOD
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#75
mike.lyon Wrote:thanks...
stillhe is NO GOOD

Do you have anything to support that claim? Do you have any evidence that counters what I've offered? Do you have any shred of a contention beyond your own personal belief?

Posting the same thing over and over again does not make it true. It also does not lend itself to a worthwhile discussion whereby we actually might learn something.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#76
OK OK OK

my belief s he is no good and i will not post here again till i have some proof for yall
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#77
If Snape is really wholly bad, there has been very little point to all the mis-direction of his character to this point in the books.

Life is complicated. People are complicated. Not a few people who seem "nice", or "harmless", or "simple", and so forth are really wicked to their core {eg, Quirrel .... simple, a 'harmless' timid person ... in league with and at last possessed by LV}.

On the other hand, you don't have to be "nice" or sweet or easy to get along with, to be on the "right side" in a war. Enter Snape, who Dumbledore trusts and who he insists Harry and every one else trust, too. Nasty, mean, smart, secretive, anything but fair-minded, downright cruel at times .......... but, Harry is told over and again, to be trusted.

Snape has saved Harry's bacon more than once. Of course, he might have had his own reasons to do so, not serving the "good" but rather, himself.

But "the world is not divided between good people and Death Eaters", we are told. We can have a Mundungus, a criminal, serving the Order, as well as HP and friends, after all.

Dumbledore was dying from the start of the sixth book. His arm was already dead. The slow curse of the ring Horcrux might have done for him no matter what happened on the tower. Snape's choices as he came upon the scene in the tower were limited. Snape was bound by the U Vow {to protect Draco, and to complete Draco's task should it seem likely if he were to fail - or, die}.

If Snape had not done that, then Snape would have died. He could see the two brooms ... Snape was no fool .... he likely guessed HP was there. If he did not kill D then, he would die, and HP would be revealed in the presence of the Death Eaters with no defender. What would that have served? And if D were dying anyway {which, since Snape had treated D after the ring curse took effect, he would know .................}

No, I have never liked Snape. But love and forgiveness and their power are major themes of these books. As are sacrifice.

So, I expect learning to forgive, and sacrifice, are going to be elements of the last .................
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#78
yea but hp was supposed to die and if that the case y didnt he kill hp and get the glory cuz hes already going to get the glory from lv for the murder of D.

also another question was raised is there a time limit on the curse which required him to kill D
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#79
If the HP story is just about being the most powerful wizard and the baddast baddie of them all, then love has nothing to do with it.

Honor, sacrifice, principle, doing the right thing {which is hard} over the easy thing {which is wrong}; and love, the power of caring, of relationships .... these things are supposed to matter.

Remember, when Dumbledore and LV spoke to one-another in the M of Magic, Dumbledore said he would not be satisfied with killing LV.

Hmmmm

Will Harry being able to kill LV make Harry "the winner"? Or just a killer?

I for one want a different and far more creative resolution to this conflict. Harry {and we} have been told that Harry has a power LV knows not, and that power is "love".

Perhaps all that means is that Harry will love his fellows enough to sacrifice himself to save the Wizarding World, if it means he takes LV with him through the Veil. And that would be enough.

But it isn't just about wizarding skill or power. The relationships of the wizards are no different than those of us regular mortals, after all.

And love has something to do with the mystery, or what we've been told so far is nonsense.
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