Brokeback Mountain
#1
Has anoyone seen this yet....I read about it a few months back, and its finally hit the cinemas over here, but as yet I'm still trying to find time to go and see it. The critics and reviews are raving about it, and I'm a fan of both Ledger and Gyllenhaal, and I'm curious as to other peoples views on it.
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#2
If you read the short story its based on, they keep faithfully to it. It's not open around here yet, although I did see that Oklahoma City will be having it on Jan 5th.
"Some people say you are going the wrong way, when it's simply a way of your own." ~ Angelina Jolie

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#3
this is another one of those hollywood political movies. It opened in a few big cities with a big gay community. All the critics rave about it, the papers all say the return per screen is extreme and then, it will win all the oscars. Big push and it will open nationwide to much fanfare. But it iss a staged audience. What would the return per screen be if they had shown "Pashion of the Christ" only in Baptist churches. No, it is a movie made for a propaganda purpose and I don't see those no matter how good it is supposed to be. I didn't see "triumph of the will" either
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#4
masterblaster Wrote:But it iss a staged audience. What would the return per screen be if they had shown "Pashion of the Christ" only in Baptist churches.

I'm afraid that I don't quite see your point. What do you mean by a "staged audience"?

Quote:No, it is a movie made for a propaganda purpose and I don't see those no matter how good it is supposed to be. I didn't see "triumph of the will" either

This is funny. No one complains about the tagline "a triumph of will" when it's used in reference to The Journey of Natty Gann or Cinderella Man or even Hustle & Flow. Whether a movie truly is a "triumph of will" has nothing on the Hollywood marketing machine. If you called a movie what it really was, "ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO MAKE MORE MONEY" how many people would go see it?

Amid all the potential controversy, this line seems like such a non-issue. Confusedleep:
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#5
I had it explained to me by an expert. The show opens in a very few very large cities at theaters located in areas with a large gay population. It makes for a staged event.
The idea is not to make money. Why did Narnia make tons of money but almost never got to the screen because some hollywood insiders complained of the "pro-Christian" bias. The Passion of the Christ is one of the highest grossing films of all times but never had a normal release because of it's "pro_Christian" bias. Hollywood on;y makes two kinds of films; propaganda and re-makes, seriels (superman 13) but little else. Why is theater attendance the lowest since 1985.
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#6
masterblaster Wrote:I had it explained to me by an expert. The show opens in a very few very large cities at theaters located in areas with a large gay population. It makes for a staged event.

Yeah, I'm still not getting it. Are you suggesting that Brokeback Mountain shouldn't be marketed to the gay community?

Contrarily, why would Hollywood not market this movie to as broad a spectrum as they thought would watch it?

Quote:The idea is not to make money.

So what is the idea? Are the makers planning on giving back the profits they've already earned?

Quote: Why did Narnia make tons of money but almost never got to the screen because some hollywood insiders complained of the "pro-Christian" bias.

Ummm, what?

Quote:The Passion of the Christ is one of the highest grossing films of all times but never had a normal release because of it's "pro_Christian" bias.

Well, #27 worldwide doesn't quite equate to "highest grossing films of all times" but we'll let that slide. But I'm afraid that I'm missing your point regarding the release of Passion. Further, what does this have to do with Brokeback Mountain's release?


Quote:Hollywood on;y makes two kinds of films; propaganda and re-makes, seriels (superman 13) but little else.

Propoganda, eh? Propoganda for what?

I agree that Hollywood is a big fan of the cash-cow, and the battlecry is as often "sequel" as it is "franchise". But they are in the business to make money. I can't really fault them for that.

Quote:Why is theater attendance the lowest since 1985.

It's not. Movie attendance slumped 7% in 2005 the sharpest percentage decrease, but that's not the same as movie theater attendance. That's a lower percentage from 2004, not from 1985. Ticket sales in 2005 were $8.9 billion, as compared with $9.4 billion in 2004. But more people went to the movies in 2005 than they did in 1985.

However, poor movie quality is hardly the only culprit for the movie theater slump. While the silver screen is reeling, the small-screen (and depending on your wallet, not-so-small-screen) are doing amazingly well. DVD sales are through the roof, as are pay-per-view movies, internet movie sales and companies like Netflix and Blockbuster Online rental companies. Movie-lovers just stopped going to the theaters, but they didn't pay any less for their movie entertainment. They were simply more willing to stay at home and get the same quality of movie without the cost of a theater ticket and some kid kicking the back of your chair throughout the film.
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#7
Akasha Wrote:If you read the short story its based on, they keep faithfully to it. It's not open around here yet, although I did see that Oklahoma City will be having it on Jan 5th.


A few of my friends have seen it and enjoyed it very much...it has opened around here...(Southern New England
Kate
Troll Hunter and catcher Extraordinaire
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#8
Cheers, :hello:
missferal

- Be nice to people on your way up
because you might meet 'em
on your way down -

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#9
missferal Wrote:Unlike most critics, I go to a movie to enjoy the entertainment value not to rip the film apart and inspect every frame for hidden meaning, faults and a propaganda adjenda. Besides, a night at the movies with friends and popcorn is still a great night out.

Couldn't have said it better myself. :clap:

I don't follow critics for anything. Sometimes they forget that movies aren't all about the art of movie making, and instead are primarily to entertain. Hashing a popular movie because it's popular is silly. I don't need to be made to feel bad about a movie just because everyone else liked it too!
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#10
Apparently there's some angst over this issue in the most rarefied elite levels of the movie establishment. See Drudge story re Brokeback v. Munich

Critics are notorious for turning up their noses at movies over the 'popular' subject matter, and professing to prefer 'edgy' artsy stuff that is less accessible or interesting to mass audiences. That's why they're elite critics. They Know Better Than You, & Have Discriminating Taste. And They Get Paid For Their Opinions, So There. :there:

At the same time, it sometimes becomes obvious the movie business elites try to create a huge buzz from little or nothing because someone wants to "create" an instant classic, &/or arguably like the messages it contains & want the great unwashed to see them. (example IMO: American Beauty) Obviously, this argument is weak when the movie really becomes a legit hit & moneymaker (as it appears Brokeback seems to be doing.) We'll have to wait & see if the momentum is genuine or artificially induced.
Many Defeats & Many Fruitless Victories Memoirs Gateway
For I was talking aloud to myself...the old...choose the wisest person present to speak to...
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#11
But, the big question about Brokeback is:

Do they eat pudding?
Wrestling Darwin on a daily basis.

"Question boldly even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of reason than that of a blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
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#12
LOL, I did not see any sign of pudding in the movie. Wink

If I depend on critics for anything, it's a synopsis of the film. I could care less about their opinions, unless Ebert and Roeper are going fist-to-cuffs over a movie and that's only because it's so much fun to watch (not as much fun as Siskel and Ebert, but fun enough).

As far as propaganda and the way the movie was marketed is concerned, that's neither here nor there. BBM is not the only movie that was ever released in such a manner (limited release, followed by national release). Most of your big Oscar contenders are released in that exact same manner, and it's been going on for years. Are all those movies propaganda also? Is "Memoirs of a Geisha" propaganda? I don't think so. And neither is this one, though I can see why some people might feel that way if they don't agree with the subject matter.

At any rate, the movie was good, the acting was great, the cinematography was beautiful, and it did NOT portray cowboys in a negative light at all.
Sheldon: I'm not crazy. My mother had me tested.

~ The Big Bang Theory
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#13
This is clearly a movie with an agenda, and that agenda is to gain wider acceptance of homosexuality. In addition, people who have nothing to do with the movie, but wish to gain wider acceptance of homosexuality in American society, are blindly fawning praise on the movie. Those people who want to appear open minded and holier than thou heap praise on it. I think any frank discussion of the movie has to begin with an admission that the movie seeks to gain wider acceptance of homosexuality in American society.
Another point: Hollywood seeks to push the envelope in order to get noticed. Their method of choice is to push against traditional American values and Christian values. Getting noticed is what they do, and is how they make their money. So they put out a movie about gay cowboys because it (a) ain't been done before, (b) it is contrary to traditional American and Christian values, and © they figure that'll get them press. The fact that the press about "Brokeback" has been positive proves that they are, in fact, not really paving any new ground here. Pushing against traditional American values and Christian values is so overdone it has become a cliche. They are non-conformists in a roomful of non-conformists, which makes them conformists. You can only watch so many movies about nuns fallen from grace before that idea becomes old hat. You can only watch so many movies and TV shows about homosexuality before that idea is old hat, too (check out the TV schedule for the Bravo channel to see what I'm talking about).
Now that riling up those who support traditional American values and Christian values has become old hat, I believe that a truly "edgy" film, one that expands boundries and pushes the envelope, would be something that riles up the American left. A movie that dramatizes Martin Luther King's extramarital affairs and ties to the American Communist Party, for example. Or one that dramatizes the good that can come out of choosing an adoption over an abortion. Now THAT would be edgy. "Brokeback", on the other hand, is a cliche.
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#14
Joe, just two questions.

One, have you seen the film and still feel that it has an agenda?

And, two, if it does have such an agenda, are you opposed to the wider acceptance of homosexuality?
Wrestling Darwin on a daily basis.

"Question boldly even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of reason than that of a blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
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#15
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#16
joe-sixpack Wrote:On your second point, I'm sorry but I will not fall into the trap of answering whether I am personally opposed to the wider acceptance of homosexuality. Doing so would only serve to change the subject away from the movie (the topic of this thread) and toward my personal beliefs, a well-worn tactic of those who have run out of things to say about the subject at hand.

Wow. I've never been accused of running out of things to say.

I just hope that all of America sees through this blatant Homosexual agenda and prevents the horrific consequenses that "widespread acceptance" would bring.

Acceptance is such a dangerous thing. I say we hold the line against it.
Wrestling Darwin on a daily basis.

"Question boldly even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of reason than that of a blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
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#17
Actually, having read the link on the persecution of the poor, victimized film critics, I don't think it was that brutal.

The statement:

"Shalit has every right as a film critic to criticize Brokeback Mountain," GLAAD retorted. "But his baseless branding of Jack as a 'sexual predator' merely because he is romantically interested in someone of the same sex is defamatory, ignorant and irresponsible."

Doesn't seem to be "overtly attacking movie reviewers who have the gall (!) to give it anything other than a glowing review." so much as objecting to his interpretation of the characters' motives.

I dunno. The insidious homosexual agenda seems fairly tame and civilized to me.
Wrestling Darwin on a daily basis.

"Question boldly even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of reason than that of a blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson
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#18
All your base are belong to us.

It could be that the purpose of my life is only to serve as a warning to others.
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#19
RobRoy Wrote:...Not like those scumy humans who want to breathe and that GLADD organization who prefer that gays and lesbians not be subjected to bashing and hate-mongering!

And there you have it, folks. A discussion about whether "Brokeback Mountain" has an agenda has turned into celebration of victimhood. As you see by RobRoy's posting, those who wish to shine the light on this agenda, in a non-insulting way, are apparently guilty of "bashing and hate-mongering". Where did this come from? The discussion is about whether "Brokeback Mountain" is a movie with an agenda (or, as masterblaster put it, whether it is "propaganda"). He was jumped on for this assertion (Robroy said, "Propaganda, eh? Propaganda for what? I agree that Hollywood is a big fan of the cash-cow, and the battlecry is as often 'sequel' as it is 'franchise'. But they are in the business to make money. Can't really fault them for that.") and I pointed out that, yes, there is a "propaganda" element to it.

Now that we all agree that "Brokeback Mountain" has an agenda (robroy: "to think that GLAAD isn't out to help promote gays and lesbians is like thinking that humans aren't out to breath oxygen!"), can we also agree that pointing to this fact is not "hate-mongering"?
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#20
I hate to point out the obvious but this is a story, a simple story and one that is not a remake, a reproduction, a make over or redo or a sequel.. a brand never before seen movie and these days that in its self is a rare thing.
If the topic of the story isn't to your liking then go and see something else, read a book, take up a hobby, go to a football game but let those that want to see it, and enjoy it for what it is, do just that.
If those of us that want to see it, dont end up enjoying it, then it will be for our own reasons and that will our own opinion but the point is it's our opinion, not a group decision, not one based on someone elses thoughts, propaganda, political adjenda or gender related views.
Hollywood .......thats entertainment.
Salute'
Cheers, :hello:
missferal

- Be nice to people on your way up
because you might meet 'em
on your way down -

>***********************<

Official International Kevin Sorbo Fan Club
http://www.ozfans.com

>***********************<
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