Yoda screwed up
#1
Remember when Yoda told Obi Wan they needed to kill the sith? He told Obi to go after Anikan and he would take on Palpatine. Obi objected and Yoda said Obi was not powerful enough and would lose to Palpatine. This was a mistake in 3 ways.

1. We see that Obi Wan is a very good lightsabar fighter when he defeats Anikin. Perhaps he could defeat Palpatine?

2. Obi Wan told Yoda he could not kill Anakin. In the end he beats him but lets him live. He should have made sure he was finished.

3. What Yoda should have done is have Obi Wan and himself both take on Palpatine together. This would give them a clear advantage and they may have been able to kill him. Together they would have been a formidable force. Then they both could have gone after Anakin.

By making the decision to split up Yoda causes himself to lose and Anakin to live. It was a bad decision.
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#2
1. Obi-Wan defeated Anakin because he got cocky. I doubt Palpatine would make the same mistake, but who knows? Perhaps he might have defeated Palpatine, but maybe not. After all, he lost to Palpatine's apprentice before.

2. Anakin had no arms or legs, was on fire, and stuck in the middle of nowhere next to a dangerous lava pit. Obi-Wan did not "let" him live, he just assumed Anakin was going to die and saw no need to finish him off.

3. Maybe, but it was necessary to go after them quickly before they could go into hiding somewhere or order thousands of troops after Obi-Wan and Yoda to kill them.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."- Abraham Lincoln
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#3
the yoda/palpatine fight was not a lightsaber fight, it was an all out force brawl, and obi wan wouldnt have lasted long.
"It's like, how much more black could this be? And the answer is none. None more black."
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#4
Here's the problem with Obi-Wan and Yoda teaming up.

*The Jedi enter Sidious' chamber.
Palpatine Force Lightnings Obi-Wan.*
Kenobi is now dead. The duel continues as it did.
There is now no one to fight Anakin,
And the Jedi are short another member.
Life sucks. Unless bad things happen, you can't be sure you're actually alive.
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#5
I give on number one. Obi could not defeat Palpatine by himself.

As for the last reply Obi had shown he could block force lightning before and he is stronger. I assumed blocking force lightning with his light saber was something Windu taught him but either way he could do it.

Also Palpatine would be concerned with Yoda.
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#6
What isnt very clear was why Yoda was so eager to run off, when it was not certain he lost to Palpatine. Sure they both fell, but I thought the fight was a stalemate, with no clear winner as of yet. But we see Yoda so eager to run away from the fight.
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#7
He that fights and runs away... (you know the rest).

Yoda has the ability to see the future. Maybe he realized that he couldn't defeat Palpatine, and that staying alive was the important thing...since that was the only way the Jedi would ever get the opportunity to return to power. Had he and Obi-Wan died, there would've been no one to pass on the teachings of the Jedi to Luke.

:bug:

~Misty
Daniel: Mak tal shree! Lo tak meta satak Oz!

Goa'uld: Mok Tal Oz?!

Daniel: Mak Tal Oz kree!
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#8
So Yoda saw the future while he and Palp were falling down. Great.
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#9
Nimruzir Wrote:So Yoda saw the future while he and Palp were falling down. Great.

Yeah, Yoda's tricky. Wink

:bug:

~Misty
Daniel: Mak tal shree! Lo tak meta satak Oz!

Goa'uld: Mok Tal Oz?!

Daniel: Mak Tal Oz kree!
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#10
I'm not sure about Yoda seeing the future during the fight; I think foresight requires a vast amount of focus (since when he does it during other parts of the series he's in the darkened meditation room.) I think Yoda's motives for leaving the battle were a lot more simple;
he simply lacked the will to fight anymore.
After 'feeling' the deaths of countless Jedi I think Yoda's enthusiasm for combat was just lacking. He'd hoped he would be able to take down the Emporer, but in the end he just didn't have the heart to continue the fight. If he did, then why not lauch himself back up to Palpatine with some Jedi leaps after his fall? Why not use the Force to recall his lightsaber?
I would also contend that Obi-Wan and Yoda ganging up on Palpatine might've been a good idea. I don't think Obi-Wan would've just been barbecued; in Episode II he does a good enough job of absorbing Dooku's Force lightning into his lightsaber. And I've said this before; I think Obi-Wan was one of the best lightsaber duelists in the series. If I had to rank 'em, top 10, say, I'd go:
1 - Yoda
2 - Palpatine
3 - Count Dooku
4 - Obi-Wan Kenobi
5 - Mace Windu
6 - Anakin Skywalker
7 - General Grievous
8 -...uhm, lemme get back to you...
Anyway, my point is Obi wouldn't have been aced all that quickly. But I do think he would have died. Even if, by some miracle, the Emporer was slain, there would soon after be the nagging little issue of ALL OF CORUSCANT WANTING TO FRAG THE TWO REMAINING JEDI. I think Yoda's hope was to get Obi-Wan as far from the new Empire as possible. And, as long as he was out, he could do some errands. Y'know, pick up toilet paper, drop off the mail, murder his beloved comrade-in-arms...
In any case, What bothered me most was Mace Windu's arrogance. You don't take a few Jedi into crowded quarters to face off against the most powerful evil in recent galactic history.
You arm every able-bodied Jedi on the bloody planet and corner him in his apartment. And then you play the waiting game...
*sidebar: before today, I didn't know that MW was ex-Sith. Kinda explains the arrogance...*

Peace

-MN
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#11
Mace Windu was ex-Sith?
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#12
You guys dont seem to see the big picture. Lucas already new what was to happen in the future Palpatine had to live along with Anikan. Therfore they had to split up in order to keep with the story.
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#13
well, Capt is right......it just takes a lotta fun out of the saga to look at it this way though.


I agree this was a mistake by Yoda. Not that having Obi-Wan there would have been enough though.

I think the bigger mistake was made by Mace Windu by not taking more help to arrest Palpetine. This was a Sith Master for crying out loud!!! I would have waited and taken every Jedi available, Yoda and Obi-Wan included (plus any security, any one with a weapon and some kids with sticks!) I'm not saying this out of hind-sight either. When they showed Mace and the other Jedi (who knows how good these guys were anyway...) walking down the hall way, I said allowed in the theater, "you gotta be kiddin' " (I got a couple laughs and one "sssshhhhhh!".Blush ) Anyway, he simply underestimated the power of the darkside....

PS: i know Yoda and other Jedi could sense the future, but I don't think they could actually "see the future". Some, like Yoda were more adept at it than others, but it was more to do with feelings than a clear vision of what will happen (IMO)
I gotta bad feeling about this.
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#14
Yoda lost, but noting Obi wan's track record I wouldn't have wanted obi wan by my side either. lets take a look;

obi + qui gon vs maul = qui gon dies
obi + anakin vs dooku = obi almost gets killed, anakin losses arm
obi + anakin vs dooku rematch = obi almost killed, anakin takes a leap towards dark side

"get me killed, you will not! jinx, you are. away from me, you will stay"-Master Yoda
its not yoda's fault that obi wan didn't/couldn't kill anakin. thats obi's failure...
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#15
Well, Mace seemed to be doing pretty well on his own before Anakin arrived!
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#16
Try to remember that MW was not even sure that Palpatine was the Sith Lord. MW didn't trust or totally believe Anakin. They went to try to find out the truth and arrest him if it was true but they weren't SURE. I do agree that more Jedi probably would have been a smart thing in hindsight, but then again, MW seemed to be doing alright until Anakin showed up.
Of course, I still think Palpatine wasn't in any real danger and probably could have finished off MW much quicker but he needed Anakin to save him to make his turn to the dark side complete. But that's another thread.
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#17
Well Mace had to die that way it was way better than all the others that got shot in the back. And besides Palpatine didnt defeat Mace by tecnicality Mace defeated Palpatine. Anikin just took Mace off gaurd and caught him off gaurd that gave palpatine the advantige he needed to finish him off.
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#18
Beast Wrote:Yoda lost, but noting Obi wan's track record I wouldn't have wanted obi wan by my side either. lets take a look;

obi + qui gon vs maul = qui gon dies
obi + anakin vs dooku = obi almost gets killed, anakin losses arm
obi + anakin vs dooku rematch = obi almost killed, anakin takes a leap towards dark side

"get me killed, you will not! jinx, you are. away from me, you will stay"-Master Yoda
its not yoda's fault that obi wan didn't/couldn't kill anakin. thats obi's failure...

Wow theres almost some hatred for Obi-Wan i sense in you Beast.. sure Obi almost gets killed against Dooku, but that neednt have been the case if Anakin had fought Dooku properly with Obi the first time around.
Ectopic Shapeshifting Penance.

My shirt size is medium husky.
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#19
Coconut ice cream Wrote:Wow theres almost some hatred for Obi-Wan i sense in you Beast.. sure Obi almost gets killed against Dooku, but that neednt have been the case if Anakin had fought Dooku properly with Obi the first time around.

I agree everyone seems to want to discredit Obi. And that fist battle with Dooku was Anakin fault. But as my crazy find mistakes in Star Wars sister suggested, getting Zapped by Dooku could have helped when Luke was getting zapped by the Emporer in ROTJ.
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#20
Hmm, I think the "Obi-Wan is a jinx" theory completely overlooks the fact that he was one of only two Jedi to survive the fall of the Republic.

He's not a jinx, he's lucky!

:bug:

~Misty
Daniel: Mak tal shree! Lo tak meta satak Oz!

Goa'uld: Mok Tal Oz?!

Daniel: Mak Tal Oz kree!
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