The 'His Dark Materials' Movies
#41
Jammin,

That would be the correct observation. Each ideology is at the mercy of the defect in man - whether you call it sin as the Church does, or self-reality disconnect in whatever psychology, or as Tolkien has one character observe the flaw which brings the intent and ability of man to derelection.

It is indeed telling that whatever the philosophical approach or basis, that inherent flaw distorts and derails the best intentions, individuals, organizations, societies, and cultures. So it comes as no surprise when surveying the history of humanity we find the flaws in individuals, organizations, institutions, and governments. Anywhere in fact that mankind dwells or goes.

What is glib and distorted is that only Christianity is so afflicted. But that requires a little historical evaluation of the major movements of humanity in the spheres mentioned and an honest assessment of their results.

As you note, Hitler twisted materialism, the Inquisition Catholicism, and terrorists Islam. Pullman is twisting materialism in his own way and ignoring history's lessons. Now, he may do that in his novels and own devised worlds. He may even proclaim it as a philosophical viewpoint and set it opposite others (which he has). But those activities invite critical assessment and discussion and disagreement.

Which is why we have SF-Fandom, where reading does count and is taken seriously (along with film and, yes, even TV)!
inked
"Aslan is not a tame lion. Safe?
No, he's not safe, but he's good."
CSL/LWW
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#42
inked Wrote:As you note, Hitler twisted materialism, the Inquisition Catholicism, and terrorists Islam. Pullman is twisting materialism in his own way and ignoring history's lessons. Now, he may do that in his novels and own devised worlds. He may even proclaim it as a philosophical viewpoint and set it opposite others (which he has). But those activities invite critical assessment and discussion and disagreement.

Which is why we have SF-Fandom, where reading does count and is taken seriously (along with film and, yes, even TV)!

Vive la difference as they say! Indeed, if we all had the same opinion, forums like this would be pretty pointless and dull!

All this talk has me itching to read the books again, to delve a little deeper into some of the meanings.

Without the benefit of doing that, however, I can only comment on the impression I was left with. The books, I felt, attacked organised religion, or specifically "the church", or more specifically the corruption of the church by man. However, they do not attack the idea of the existence of God, or a creator, or some supernatural influence in the universe. Again, my interpretation of this may be off, so apologies!
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#43
Wow, look what I started...craziness.

Anyway, if I can jump in here for a second, I think the problem I had with the books was the way Pullman completely dismissed Christianity as this huge hoax that people had been mistakenly believing for centuries. I'm not naive enough to think that everyone believes as I do, but as a Christian I didn't want to read them anymore once I got to a certain point.

As far as other things people have said, Christians aren't ordered to go convert people, but to tell people about Christ. The Crusades and the Inquisition are, obviously, two events where men twisted religion to suit their own purposes, but you can hardly blame Christianity for the greed and lusts of men. Islam commands followers to convert or kill, while Christ says only to tell people about Him, and it's up to them whether they believe or not.

I think Davedapunk has a point about Christianity not being such a serious thing in Britain. Yes, many great theologians and men and women of faith came from Britain, but in the past few decades British society seems to have fallen away from following any sort of religion, and therefore it isn't as big a deal to them if someone criticizes Christianity, as it is in America. Not that I agree with it, but that's what I've observed.

On with the debate!
Robert, depriving the American public of my genius is letting the terrorists win.
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