possible clues/evidence to Sirius's return
#1
I've re read all the harry potter books,

and as I got to the end of phoenix I read something VERY interesting.

At the end of the bookwhen he asks Nearly headless nick about Sirius and if he will return

Nick says "I know nothing of the SECRETS of death - I believe learned

wizards STUDY the matter in the department of mysteries"

Now is it just me, or did anyone assume that the room with the veil (where sirius apparently died)

did anyone assume that room was a place where people where taken to be killed?

But from wot nick says, in there they study death, so isn't it unlikely that they'd be an object that kills (the veil) when all the doing is studying it

wouldnt it be more likely that the veil is like a portal to the after like that these wizards use to explore death?

meaning that sirius mite not be dead but somehow stuck there?
The one with the power to vanquish the dark lord approaches,born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies,and the dark lord will mark him as his equal,and either must die at the hand of the other
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#2
Quote:Originally posted by Fosco_Diggory
I've re read all the harry potter books,

and as I got to the end of phoenix I read something VERY interesting.

At the end of the bookwhen he asks Nearly headless nick about Sirius and if he will return

Nick says "I know nothing of the SECRETS of death - I believe learned

wizards STUDY the matter in the department of mysteries"

Now is it just me, or did anyone assume that the room with the veil (where sirius apparently died)

did anyone assume that room was a place where people where taken to be killed?

But from wot nick says, in there they study death, so isn't it unlikely that they'd be an object that kills (the veil) when all the doing is studying it

wouldnt it be more likely that the veil is like a portal to the after like that these wizards use to explore death?

meaning that sirius mite not be dead but somehow stuck there?


Very interesting...i'm not %100 on what your saying, but it has led me to think more about the fact that the veil was in the dept of Mysteries.

Unspeakables clearly know its there, its in that room that looks like an old fashioned operating theatre...these 2 points must be considered by people when making predictions for the next book...i can't think of anything, but i'm sure its all very important.

I think the Dept of Mysteries is the equivalent of MI5, lots of secrets ordinary wizards don't know about...one of these secrets could involve the study of death or more importantly life after death.

Hey, remember all those other weird rooms in the Dept of Mysteries, like all the brains in the fish tank thing, etc. I wonder if we will learn about these weird things...but they might remain (hence the name) mysteries.
Save a tree! (eat a beaver)
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#3
Not to hijack the thread, but Tom Riddle (like Dumbledore, I prefer to use the name Tom Riddle) opened the Chamber of Secrets when he was sixteen years old.

I am somewhat confused, but 'somebody' also killed his father and his father's parents when he was also sixteen? ("Their grown-up son Tom, had been, if anything, worse..." that can't be the same Tom Riddle at Hogwarts, 'over fifty years ago'.

So apparently Tom Riddle really wasn't an orphan all his life like I had assumed.

Anyway, I had always envisioned Tom Riddle as graduating from Hogwarts, working in the Ministry of Magic, having had access to the Dept of Mysteries, and learning somehow of the prophecy concerning either Neville or Harry, he didn't know which at the time.

But am I mistaken, or does J.K.Rowling want us to believe that 16-year old Tom Riddle left Hogwarts, or perhaps during the previous holiday, and went and killed his father and grandparents? If that be the case, I don't see how he could have stayed at Hogwarts, let alone graduated and went to the Ministry of Magic and then to the Dept of Mysteries.

Anyway, according to my original theory, Tom Riddle would know of that veil, and if Sirius Black is alive Voldemort would know it. Perhaps Voldemort has made use of the Veil to get in contact with Slytherin himself?
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#4
Quote:Originally posted by queen beetle
Anyway, I had always envisioned Tom Riddle as graduating from Hogwarts, working in the Ministry of Magic, having had access to the Dept of Mysteries, and learning somehow of the prophecy concerning either Neville or Harry, he didn't know which at the time.


actually, i believe in the fifth book mr. albus dumbledore explains to harry that one of tom riddle's Wink spys only heard the first part of the prophecy, that dumbledore heard. that is why voldemort hurried to try and kill harry in the first place, and failed, and voldemort relized this, and thus comes the conclusion of the fifth book, why harry tried to save 'sirius'. because voldemort found out there was more to the prophecy

nothing against your theory, it could be possible, its just that i think dumbeldore says voldemorte hears about it for the first time from his spy

i might be wrong, but that is what i remember
Don't do nothing.
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#5
Queen Beetle, No one knew who killed Tom's father and grandparents. Remember, they blamed it on the old man that tended the gardens? So no one knew that he had done it, so his record was clear.

That's a good point about the veil... I still don't think that Sirius will come back. It may be a doorway to the land of the dead. But I believe Sirius will be stuck there. Maybe Harry will get his hopes built up, only to find out Sirius can't ever come back, now that he's left. Even if he's not truly dead.
Part the mists and look beyond... there you will find Avalon.
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#6
Looks like it's time to pull out my book and do some serious rereading.

One point though: the 'muggle townspeople' blamed the gardener, I wonder what people like Dumbledore and others in the wizarding world thought? On the other hand, if anyone had really thought Tom Riddle had killed his family, then I don't see how Voldemort could have gotten such a large following. It's hard for me to imagine even Lucius Malfoy being a follower of a known family annihilator unless he had one *** of a good story.

On the other hand, Lucius has to know that Tom Riddle is a mudblood but just doesn't care because he is an heir of Slytherin. But that sure would make Lucius Malfoy one big hypocrite...

Sirius not physically coming back would kind of go along with the flow of the story so far. Perhaps he and Harry will communicate through the veil as they did through the fireplaces.
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#7
Queen Beetle, I think the reason the death eaters ignore the fact Voldemorts not a pureblood, is a bit like Hitler, because he went on about the master pure blood race didnt he? The Aerian's or something, but he wasn't like that, he wasn't even German.

I think that may just be Rowling using another Evil dictater as inspiration for Voldemort.

:paw:
Any way I assumed the veil was used to kill.

but the fact the veil has something to do with studying death NOT inflicting death, leads me to think Sirius mite not be dead, the reason I bring it up is because it seems like a sly clue from Rowling, I mean How would Nearly headless Nick know that death is studied in the department of mysteries-sneaky clue I recon.

It just seems strange that Rowling would use Nearly headless Nick to say that he believed death was studied at the department of mysteries.
The one with the power to vanquish the dark lord approaches,born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies,and the dark lord will mark him as his equal,and either must die at the hand of the other
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#8
I don't think the death eaters know that Voldemorts a half blood

Only Harry Neveille & Luna where in the room when & there the only ones that can see Threstrals. Get where I'm comin from?
Shorey for England!
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RoCk On SnOw PaTrOl

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#9
Voldemort told Harry (in front of thirteen Death Eaters, at the end of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire) that he had killed Tom Riddle Sr. and his Muggle family. So, even if they didn't know the truth before then, the Death Eaters should have heard Voldemort confess to being part Muggle then.

I am curious about why Harry could not see the Thestrals when he left Hogwarts at the end of Goblet of Fire. I have just started rereading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and haven't gotten to Harry's return to Hogwarts yet.
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#10
Quote:Originally posted by Michael
I am curious about why Harry could not see the Thestrals when he left Hogwarts at the end of [i]Goblet of Fire. I have just started rereading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and haven't gotten to Harry's return to Hogwarts yet.


yep, it answers it in there
Don't do nothing.
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#11
I typed up a whole mini-essay on this and it 'submitted' into cyberspace. I'll go do a WORD file and I'll Be Back....<sigh>
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#12
Quote:Originally posted by Michael
Voldemort told Harry (in front of thirteen Death Eaters, at the end of Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire) that he had killed Tom Riddle Sr. and his Muggle family. So, even if they didn't know the truth before then, the Death Eaters should have heard Voldemort confess to being part Muggle then.

Voldemort dosen't tell them directly does he? He gives them a hint but not directly.
Shorey for England!
Reading fans


RoCk On SnOw PaTrOl

- Kwik Silva 44
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#13
back on the subject of sirius's death, no one saw him die, or anything but it seemed that everyone just knew he was gone, there was only doubt from harry- everyone else just knew,

there was also a interview with J.K Rowling, and she said she cried when she wrote that Sirius had dies, this probobly meant that he was gone and not comin back- though then again she could have been lieing

concerning Tom Riddle, Hagrid got expelled from Hogwarts beacuse Riddle told the Headmaster Hagrids spiders killed the student - did Hagrid actually know that Riddle was Voldemort?

just curious
Jack - One question about your business, boy, or there’s no use going. This girl – how far are you willing to go to save her?

Will : I’d die for her.

Jack : Oh, good. No worries, then.
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#14
The characters (and J.K. Rowling) understand the nature of that archway better than the readeres. I think it has to be accepted that Sirius is dead. Luna seemed to indicate to Harry that she could hear her mother beyond the archway. She seemed to imply that Harry heard his parents.

The archway seems to be an opening into wherever the spirits of the dead go.

The story offers no hope that a living being can enter that archway (without special preparation, at least) and still live. There seems no reason to hope that Sirius will come back.
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#15
You don't think the mirror Sirius gave Harry will be used i(to communicate with him) in some way? I thought JKR hinted at this? (well.... she said asking if the mirror would be used was a good question! :tongue: )
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#16
he already tried that, but it was still early after sirius' 'death'. Sirius might have a number of things wrong with him, if indeed he is still physical inside the veil.

maybe harry should try again
Don't do nothing.
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#17
Quote:Originally posted by Liriodendron
You don't think the mirror Sirius gave Harry will be used i(to communicate with him) in some way? I thought JKR hinted at this? (well.... she said asking if the mirror would be used was a good question! :tongue: )


Sirius intended Harry to use that mirror while he was alive. Harry's unwrapping of the mirror is one of the most poignant (and perhaps misunderstood) parts of the story.

If Harry had opened the gift before he broke into Umbridge's office, he could have contacted Sirius directly and learned that the dream was false.

Things would have proceeded differently from that point. In fact, it is conceivable (but not provable) that Sirius could have conveyed the dream to Dumbledore, who could have deduced that a trap was being laid for Harry, who could then have arranged to have the Death Eaters captured.

Harry just didn't realize what the mirror really meant, in terms of the horrendous mistake he made.
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#18
u know wot? that harry's blunder,in not using the mirror indirectly claimed sirius's life never occured 2me b4.It is a tragic 4t,that Harry need not hav risked Umbridge's office at all.

Something else everyone 4getting is that after he tried 2 use the mirror he then smashed it (no mention of a repair)
The one with the power to vanquish the dark lord approaches,born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies,and the dark lord will mark him as his equal,and either must die at the hand of the other
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#19
yea, the mirror...isn't it really annoying, when you read bk over it(when harry really want's 2 speak to sirius) and you see that he doesn't open the mirror thing till after he's died! It's really sad.
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#20
Quote:Originally posted by Athena
*does finding nemo thing*

It's like he's trying to speak to me, I know it. Look, you're really cute, but I can't understand what you're saying. say the first thing again.

*doesn't understand net speak :tongue: *


huh? do u not understand what I was saying?

basically i was saying I never realised that if harry had looked in his mirror he'd hav seen sirius was safe, and also if he'd have done that sirius wouldnt hav died.

look you're really cute?:confused: :confused:
The one with the power to vanquish the dark lord approaches,born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies,and the dark lord will mark him as his equal,and either must die at the hand of the other
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