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Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - Printable Version

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Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - inked - June 23rd, 2010

{spun off from a discussion about a philosophy professor's propsed class on Tolkein here ~ august}

Hey, he's not nearly the threat this guy is on the Hippocratic Oath...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/radical_pick_for_medicare_mv32rWv9ka3kByU8H9sxBK


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - RobRoy - June 24th, 2010

inked Wrote:Hey, he's not nearly the threat this guy is on the Hippocratic Oath...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/radical_pick_for_medicare_mv32rWv9ka3kByU8H9sxBK

Interesting. Looking at the concept from a cost perspective does make sense, but only from a cost perspective. From an individual perspective, his concept is a bit concerning. However, it appears that his view is not without precedent; the British National Health Service. I’m not up on their rate of care as compared to that of the US.

Further, just because Dr. Donald Berwick is given certain powers, doesn’t mean he can implement his entire agenda, or even part of it. The article does not describe how Berwick’s point of view, his “romance” with the British process, lines up against the new healthcare laws.

Finally, this article is an op-ed piece, and clearly one-sided in that regard with little depth to the information being provided. The “Triple-Aim” that Berwick co-authored, is referenced, but no link is provided so that a full review of the document can be done. The op-ed author, Betsy McCaughey is the “chairman of the Committee to Reduce Infection Deaths and a former lieutenant governor of New York”, but that doesn’t mean she has the background and understanding to properly read and analyze Dr. Berwick’s opinions. It lends her credibility, certainly, but she appears to be a politician and not a medical expert.


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - inked - June 24th, 2010

Excellent observations on the commentor and the man commented upon - the same comment:

"It lends ___ credibility, certainly, but s/he appears to be a politician and not a medical expert."

He's not talking medicine; he's talking "social justice" - now that's political.


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - RobRoy - June 25th, 2010

inked Wrote:Excellent observations on the commentor and the man commented upon - the same comment:

"It lends ___ credibility, certainly, but s/he appears to be a politician and not a medical expert."

He's not talking medicine; he's talking "social justice" - now that's political.

Except that he is a medical expert speaking on a medical subject as applied through a government system. Doesn't make him right, just gives him more credibility than the author.


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - inked - June 25th, 2010

He's an alleged medical expert, I suppose. I have an MD and 23 years of practice experience, does that make me an expert? Or would it be more that I think medicine should be about the patient? Or would it be more if I defined medicine as "social justice"?

I think if you go to your medical expert and he tells you he's all about "social justice" you'd get another doctor who cared about your condition, but there I go assuming................:jawdrop: again.


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - RobRoy - June 25th, 2010

inked Wrote:He's an alleged medical expert, I suppose.

How is he an alleged medical expert?

Quote:I have an MD and 23 years of practice experience, does that make me an expert?

Absolutely. I would listen to your opinion on the medical industry over that of a politician lacking your background and writing an op-ed piece.

Quote:Or would it be more that I think medicine should be about the patient? Or would it be more if I defined medicine as "social justice"?

I fail to see your point here. The man's credentials are not in question. His politics might be, but I already discussed how this op-ed piece offers no details on the other side, and is simply a criticism of the man and his ideas lacking in depth.

Quote:I think if you go to your medical expert and he tells you he's all about "social justice" you'd get another doctor who cared about your condition, but there I go assuming................:jawdrop: again.

I'd tend to agree. That doesn't change my view of this particular article, it's author, or its conclusions. It's an op-ed piece, and should not be treated as anything else.


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - august - June 26th, 2010

inked Wrote:I have an MD and 23 years of practice experience, does that make me an expert?

Yes. :bg: :bounce:

RobRoy Wrote:How is he an alleged medical expert?

Apparently the faculty and board of Harvard Med School, the AMA, and a number of editors and publishers alleged this. :laugh: From his Wiki bio:

Quote:Berwick graduated with a B.A. from Harvard College, and received a M.P.P. from the John F. Kennedy School of Government and an M.D. from the Harvard Medical School. He completed his medical residency in pediatrics at Children's Hospital Boston.

Berwick began his career as a pediatrician at Harvard Community Health Plan; in 1983 he became the plan's first Vice President of Quality-of-Care Measurement.
..........

From 1987-1991, Berwick was co-founder and Co-Principal Investigator for the National Demonstration Project on Quality Improvement in Health Care, designed to explore opportunities for quality improvement in health care. Based on this work, Berwick left Harvard Community Health Plan in 1989 and co-founded the IHI.
.........

Berwick has published over 130 articles in professional journals on health care policy, decision analysis, technology assessment, and health care quality management. He is the co-author of several books, including Cholesterol, Children, and Heart Disease: an Analysis of Alternatives (1980), Curing Health Care (1990), and New Rules: Regulation, Markets and the Quality of American Health Care (1996).

So he apparently did a lot of advanced study on public policy and became an expert on government as related to health care too.

Gotta remember that V.P. Cheney and V.P. Gore are both experts on government too... but not exactly in agreement. For that matter, Pres. Clinton and the guy who prosecuted him were both experts on law and legality... but had vastly differing opinions. :poke:

Since we're not exactly talking about Tolkein anymore, anyone mind if I split this off and move it to General?


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - RobRoy - June 28th, 2010

august Wrote:Apparently the faculty and board of Harvard Med School, the AMA, and a number of editors and publishers alleged this. :laugh: From his Wiki bio:

This was my understanding as well, which is why I was questioning inked's statement that he was an "alleged medical expert". To my mind he is a medical expert. That doesn't render him infallible, but certainly goes some distance over asking random people on the street.


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - gilthoniel - August 11th, 2010

I'm coming to this discussion a bit late...

I don't think you can really know anything about Dr. Berwick from this article, which was written by Betsy McCaughey. She's the one who spread the alarm about "death panels," and continued to insist there were death panels hidden in the healthcare bill even when the passage in question was read right in her face. Everything she says is colored by her opinion that there is a conspiracy to off old people to save money.


Dr. Donald Berwick: Hippocratic or Hypocritical? - august - August 11th, 2010

gilthoniel Wrote:Everything she says is colored by her opinion

:laugh: Well yeah. Smile As is much of the thread discussion. :bg: